Help Identifying vintage CYS Chronograph (Cuervo y Sobrinos)

ephemeral · May 4, 2023

Hi,

I hope you all are having a wonderful day!

Stumbled upon that piece scrolling through.
Made me discover this amazing brand with history and I can't move my eye away from it now.

I could not find any information regarding that specific dial which to me has a beautiful patina.
I would appreciate any input on this one 😉 I very well see me wearing this watch enjoying a nice cuban cigar but I would need to make sure it is original.

Hands must have been replaced at some point, the red is way too clean. I am not sure about the case either.
Apparently it has been serviced and glass + strap replaced.

I don't think it's going to go for more than a couple hundreds

Best,
eph

Dan S · May 4, 2023

Generally speaking, many of these are fake with repainted dials. I can't say much about the OP watch based on those photos, unfortunately.

ephemeral · May 4, 2023

Dan S
Generally speaking, many of these are fake with repainted dials. I can't say much about the OP watch based on those photos, unfortunately.

This is what I realized looking at previous forum posts.

Here is another photo of the pushers.

Unless someone seen this dial moving in the market or in his collection, I probably won't risk it if it goes for couple hundreds.
One easy give away which we can't verify is that it should have a Landeron movement with CYS engraving on it.

If the dial is ok then the rest of the parts are making a suspicious sentiment grow inside of me.
Hands looking new/weird, pushers ultra worn (plated? but should not) but case is looking very nice despite having a crystal replacement.

gatorcpa · May 4, 2023

The engraving on the back is a sign of a fake. Especially since it does not match the other engraving that seems to be original.

Some companies made dials specifically for CyS. Other than those, I would assume any watch that says CyS was re-dialed.

You can see examples of originals and re-dials in this Spanish language article.

https://watchmakinglife.com/historia-cuervo-y-sobrinos-relojes/

The Rolex and Patek look good, the Omega, not so much.

The problem with trying to identify vintage CyS watches is that they were not an AD of many of the watches they sold. They took stuff in trade and had them locally re-dialed to add their name to the dial. Usually these redials were not of good quality.

This is a minefield.
gatorcpa

ephemeral · May 4, 2023

gatorcpa
The engraving on the back is a sign of a fake. Especially since it does not match the other engraving that seems to be original.

Some companies made dials specifically for CyS. Other than those, I would assume any watch that says CyS was re-dialed.

You can see examples of originals and re-dials in this Spanish language article.

https://watchmakinglife.com/historia-cuervo-y-sobrinos-relojes/

The Rolex and Patek look good, the Omega, not so much.

The problem with trying to identify vintage CyS watches is that they were not an AD of many of the watches they sold. They took stuff in trade and had them locally re-dialed to add their name to the dial. Usually these redials were not of good quality.

This is a minefield.
gatorcpa

Thanks for sharing those precious bits of information!

So since they were taking in watches to be redialed and stamped on the back with their name (not really watchmakers at that time), it's impossible to differentiate 'real' redials for total fakes ? Did I correctly understand your points?

gatorcpa · May 4, 2023

ephemeral
stamped on the back with their name

gatorcpa
The engraving on the back is a sign of a fake. Especially since it does not match the other engraving that seems to be original.

I think that some very early pocket watches may have had a similar stamp. On wristwatches, I would be very wary of that stamp.
gatorcpa

ephemeral · May 5, 2023

gatorcpa
I think that some very early pocket watches may have had a similar stamp. On wristwatches, I would be very wary of that stamp.
gatorcpa

I feel like the only available ressource in the museum in la Habana Cuba. That's a shame because the brand carries an amazing story which to me is key on every acquisition.

If you have any more ressources please send them staight away 😉 Perhaps I should pay visit to their store in Paris and see what's up.

Thanks for taking some time here,
eph

gatorcpa · May 5, 2023

Not sure that there is any legal connection between the original CyS brand and the current brand marketing the name today.

Today’s company is the one running the museum in Cuba. I doubt they would have any records at all from the original company that was nationalized by the Cuban Government in the 1960’s.

gatorcpa

ephemeral · May 5, 2023

I'll keep a note in my book for whenever I get the chance to go to Paris's shop.

It's definitely worth asking. Perhaps not everything was lost/destroyed and since it's big in the latin community, perhaps they is a place somewhere on the internet (spanish forum?) with information where people locally tracked down every bits of information?

Help Identifying vintage CYS Chronograph (Cuervo y Sobrinos)

ephemeral

Dan S

ephemeral

gatorcpa

ephemeral

gatorcpa

ephemeral

gatorcpa

ephemeral

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