Help identify my grandfather's old Longines

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Alinoe

·Oct 6, 2021

Hello!

Both my grandparents died fairly recently, and while cleaning out their things I found an old Longines watch that I'd love to know more about. I've googled a bit and looked at ebay and Chrono24, but the sheer amount of different vintage Longines is very overwhelming, that's why I'd try here.

The watch itself is a golden colour, so I assume it's either plated or 9k. The caseback seems to be steel. It's missing a crystal, and is far from clean, but it runs when I give it a little wind. (Which I've only done once, I don't want anything to break.)

There are no markings on the caseback, and I haven't been able to open it without a tool, so I don't know if there's anything written on the inside. Is it possible to say anything about this watch based on the info and the picture?

 

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Dan S

·Oct 6, 2021

The stainless case-back will generally mean that the case is gold-plated or gold-filled, but without photos from the back side I can't say much more. Beyond that, I can only say that the dial and handset look appealing at first glance and I think you will have a nice heirloom All the identifying information is on the inside, so take it to an expert and get it opened and take lots of good photos of the movement and the inside of the case-back, making sure to capture all engravings.

 

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BlueHands

·Oct 6, 2021

The dial looks also original to me and a new crystal is no problem for any watchmaker. I think the case is gold plated, 9K is typical for british cases.
Inside the caseback you will see if it is a Longines case or maybe a british case and if it's 9K or not.

 

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Vitezi

·Oct 6, 2021

A Alinoe

Is it possible to say anything about this watch based on the info and the picture?

Hello @Alinoe and welcome to the forum. I think your watch dates to the mid-1950s, based on the style of the hands and dial. The golden hands and golden hour markers match the gold-filled case and look original to my eye. The small puffy dots at the end of the hour markers and creases in the hands contain small amounts of radium, which would have glowed at night so that you could read the time in the dark. That glow-in-the-dark capability is long gone, but the fact that the trace remnants are still present suggests the dial is likely original and has not been repainted. All in all, it looks like a nice example of a mid-50s Longines dress watch.

If you intend to wear your watch, we generally recommend a complete movement service at an independent watchmaker that is used to working on vintage watches. That service, plus a new crystal, will give you a reliable timepiece with a certain mid-century modern style and class that you just can't find in a new watch.

 

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Alinoe

·Oct 7, 2021

Hi guys!

Thanks for the warm welcome and the great responses.

I went to a watchmaker today to have him remove the caseback so I can look inside.

The movement is marked with 8813927, and with 23z. I understand that this latter is the name of the movement/calibre?

The inside of the caseback is marked with a Longines logo, and the numbers 8423 - 1128 (I think. Some of the numbers are hard to read.

Is it the number in the caseback or on the movement that is the serial number? And what is the other one?

More photos

:

 

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Perdurabo

·Oct 8, 2021

8813927 is the serial number of the movement which suggests that the watch was made in or around 1952. 23z is the type of caliber.
6423 is the reference number. This one looks similar, with hands being different, but I think the hands in your watch are the correct ones:

 

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gatorcpa

·Oct 8, 2021·ΩF InvestiGator

If you set up an account with Longines, they can tell you the delivery date of the watch to the distributor and in which country it was originally sold.

https://www.longines.com/en-us/customer/account/login/

https://www.longines.com/en-us/certificate-of-authenticity

gatorcpa

 

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arturo7

·Oct 8, 2021

I like it!

 

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krogerfoot

·Oct 8, 2021

It looks like the caseback has some notes from a watchmaker etched in. There may be no way or reason to decipher them, but they indicate that someone used and cared enough about the watch to have it serviced. Seems like a good sign.

 

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Alinoe

·Oct 19, 2021

Thank you again for so much help! I registered with Longines as suggested, and here is what they could tell me:

“Further to your request, we are pleased to provide the information contained in Longines' handwritten registers.

The original serial number 8'813'927 identifies a wristwatch in 18ct yellow gold bearing the reference 6113. It is fitted with a Longines manually wound mechanical movement, caliber 23Z and was invoiced on 18 November 1955 to the company Terrasse, which was at that time our agent for Sweden and Norway.

Based on the pictures received, we can deduct that some transformation have probably been done after the watch have left the company.”

I don’t quite understand what that last bit means, but the rest is cool! Surprised to find that it’s 18k gold.

 

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gatorcpa

·Oct 19, 2021·ΩF InvestiGator

A Alinoe

I don’t quite understand what that last bit means, but the rest is cool! Surprised to find that it’s 18k gold.

I don’t think that your watch is 18K gold and and that is what Longines meant by “transformation”. Remember that they are writing in French and translating to English, so the translation doesn’t always make sense.

What is being implied here is that someone changed the original gold case for a Longines steel case back and gold plated case top.

That could have been done by the original retailer or anyone else who serviced the watch over the last 65 years.
gatorcpa

 

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Alinoe

·Oct 19, 2021

gatorcpa

I don’t think that your watch is 18K gold and and that is what Longines meant by “transformation”. Remember that they are writing in French and translating to English, so the translation doesn’t always make sense.

What is being implied here is that someone changed the original gold case for a Longines steel case back and gold plated case top.

That could have been done by the original retailer or anyone else who serviced the watch over the last 65 years.
gatorcpa

That's very interesting, and I don't think it looks like 18k either, so it makes sense. Was it common to change cases like that?

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Oct 29, 2021

It's definitely a gold capped case because you can see brassing (steeling?) on the ends of the lugs. I don't know if someone else has seen this more often but in my experience recasing a wrist watch isn't very common. If I had to make a guess I'd say that there was some damage to the original case at some point and that's why it's in a replacement case.

 

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Dan S

·Oct 29, 2021

A Alinoe

That's very interesting, and I don't think it looks like 18k either, so it makes sense. Was it common to change cases like that?

No, it's not common in my experience, and we can only speculate about the reason. Just goes to show that a lot can happen to a watch over 65 years.

 

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river9

·Oct 29, 2021

@Alinoe
Nice heirloom ! Service and wear it in good health.

To the @ experts.
The cal 23Z seems to be high grade ones since jewels are fitted inside yellow metal ring. My question is does ruby enchasse be the right word for this feature?

 

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Alinoe

·Dec 10, 2021

Hi again, guys.

Just wanted to provide an update. The watch has had a full tuning at a very good watchmaker, who left it looking beautiful and like a proper heirloom. It’s running great, too.

I found a tiny engraving between the lugs that I had missed, saying Plaque Or l 80 m, which I take to mean means the watch is plated in 80micron gold. I still find it odd that it’s been recased at some point, and wish I knew the details of that. There’s also a tiny stamp with the letters CH, which I assume just means Swiss.

I’d like to thank this forum again for such nice and helpful replies. It’s really made me happy to learn more about my grandfather’s watch, and to be able to wear it.

Some photos:

 

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sleepyastronaut

·Dec 10, 2021

A Alinoe

I still find it odd that it’s been recased at some point, and wish I knew the details of that.

Looks great!

Unfortunately, you'll likely never know the whole story of why this was recased. Whether or not the watch was what we now refer to as a 'tool watch,' until relatively recently, most watches were functional tools, and the goal of service was to get the watch back on your wrist and telling the time. Back in the day, little attention was paid to 'correctness' or collectability. Given this approach, I think it's safe to say your watch was possibly recased in order to make it work again.

18k gold is beautiful, but it's not resilient. All it would take is one good knock to deform the case to where a crystal couldn't be replaced, or to break a lug clean off the watch. Depending on the damage, a case can be repaired, or a lug reattached, but this type of work could very well cost more than just replacing the case with a steel one. You could imagine, your grandfather might tolerate the cost of repairing a dented, cracked, or otherwise damaged 18k case once, but would he pay for that work a second time? Not my grandfather.

Anyway, lovely watch. Wear it in good health!