Help about my speedmaster 321, made in USA?

noxmot55 · Jun 2, 2020

Hello forum, I'm a new member from Italy. I'm sorry for my English.
I am a happy owner of an Omega Speedmaster cal. 321 mid 66 circa. I requested the archive extract from Omega for my pre-moon to understand if movement with serial number 23331 ... was coeval with the case I supposed to be a 145.012 but this is the omega response from the sale service:

"Dear Costumer, Unfortunately we do not have complete information
about your watch. We can confirm, that the movement was produced
on August 23, 1966 and sent to United States of America, where the case
was produced. Please find here the refund confirmation"

Does anyone know better how the assembly of a made in Swiss movement sent by OMEGA to the USA and a Made in USA case took place? Was it to satisfy a NASA request? Also on the case there is a hand-made engraving with the wording "57CMM" which reads little but is evident.
thank you so much all for your support and information.

Foo2rama · Jun 2, 2020

Is it possible to see the inside of your caseback?

that would provide a lot of info.
Pictures of the movement can give some clues for US delivered watches also.

vbrad26 · Jun 2, 2020

Look up info on "Norman Morris". They were a company (eventually absorbed by Omega if I'm not mistaken) in the US that worked with Omega to import watches into the US, specifically movements that were then fitted into cases.
So that is not an uncommon thing for that time period, but not sure if they actually put together Speedmasters.
But as Foo said, pictures always help.
Could just be the pictures but that case looks a little....soft. And the lume on the dial is surprisingly light in color. Not as much patina as I'd expect.
But I'd wait for the experts to chime in on that...

mac_omega · Jun 2, 2020

Hello and welcome to OF,

My opinion on this matter: the movement was sold as "movement only" to USA and there it was cased in a locally produced chronograph case and not in a Speedmaster.
Your Speedmasster is most likely a put together watch and obviously did not leave the Omega factory this way.
I am not aware that Speedmasters have ever been assembled in the USA

SpeedyPhill · Jun 2, 2020

Inside of the caseback might have additional info
This is an online Speedmaster production date source: https://www.ilovemyspeedmaster.com/productiondateprediction/
👍

noxmot55 · Jun 2, 2020

thanks everyone for your support and reply, I hope these pics could be more useful to understand better.

Foo2rama · Jun 2, 2020

N noxmot55
thanks everyone for your support and reply, I hope these pics could be more useful to understand better.

So that’s an HF case, they are made in Switzerland. There was a small batch of speedmasters with American made cases by star watch co. Generally these should not be in the hands of the public as they where made for NASA to comply with American parts sourcing laws for NASA.

So the wording is weird. They know the movement was sent to the US... but was that because you told them the movement was marked with OXG? OXG was the import code as required by law for Omega watches sent to the US. Other mfg’s had different codes.

So how did they determine it was sent to the US and why do they not have other data?

it’s entirely possible they just have partial records. They also might know it was a service movement sent to the US. But normally service movements I thought had other signs.

they did not appear to say the movement was supposed to be in another watch, which we have seen in the past.

you might want to reach out to them and find out how exactly they came to the conclusion they did.

vbrad26 · Jun 2, 2020

Is the 321 stamped with OXG? I know it is easy to find on my 550 (Seamaster), but I don't know where to look on a 321...and I couldn't find it in those pictures.

EDIT: NVM. I googled it and it looks like I can see it in the OP's picture.

noxmot55 · Jun 2, 2020

Thanks Foo for the info, I asked Omega for more info but they didn't answer to me. They refunded me for the extract request by sending me the aforementioned answer. I would like to understand what kind of moonwatch is in my hand because it looks like an assembled one but I don't think it is based on Omega's answer.

I can't say to have a 145.012 but.....

Foo2rama · Jun 2, 2020

N noxmot55
Thanks Foo for the info, I asked Omega for more info but they didn't answer to me. They refunded me for the extract request by sending me the aforementioned answer. I would like to understand what kind of moonwatch is in my hand because it looks like an assembled one but I don't think it is based on Omega's answer.

I can't say to have a 145.012 but.....

Parts appear correct for a 145.002... the chrono hand looks replaced with a lumionova hand. I can't tell the lume state on the dial. DON bezel is in decent shape. The serial seems slightly early... but that is not exclusionary.

BatDad · Jun 2, 2020

Is the serial in range at 23M?

Foo2rama · Jun 2, 2020

BatDad
Is the serial in range at 23M?

I edited it.

noxmot55 · Jun 2, 2020

Foo do you have any idea about the hand-made engraving with the wording "57CMM"?

I would sell this moonwatch but I don't have any idea about the value for a mix of parts, not clear history and the doubt of Omega they said case made in usa.

vbrad26 · Jun 2, 2020

Well, the OXG code does appear to be on the movement, which means it was a movement for export.
However that caseback is an HF caseback, which is Swiss.
Your serial number points to a 105.012 (or 145.003?), but your caseback clearly says 145.012.

BlackTalon · Jun 2, 2020

Sure seems like it could be pieced together. Hard to tell about the dial lume in the photo -- is it there? Is the movement potentially from a Seamaster? No service marks on inside of caseback, but it looks like the movement has been serviced at some point. Whoever manned the polishing wheel and destroyed the case should be hung up in the air and given the same treatment...

Dan S · Jun 2, 2020

As noted elsewhere, not all 321's are Speedmasters.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/not-all-321s-are-speedmasters.22332/

noxmot55 · Jun 2, 2020

I'm sorry just to understand how can understand an HF case?

mac_omega · Jun 2, 2020

N noxmot55
I'm sorry just to understand how can understand an HF case?

HF is the code for a swiss case maker who produced Speedmaster cases for Omega.

So what you have:

1) case made in Switzerland

2) movement exported to the USA - there it was most probably cased into a Seamaster or the like

Somebody might have transplanted the movement into this case maybe to replace a heavily damaged movement (think water damage, rusted,...).

Text emphasis added by Mod.

gatorcpa · Jun 2, 2020

HF = Huguenin Freres. A Swiss Watch case manufacturer.

It was not unknown for some Swiss watch companies to import the movements and cases separately to the USA. They would be cased and adjusted locally to save on customs duties.

I’ve not heard of this practice with the Omega Speedmaster, but with vintage Omega, anything is possible.
gatorcpa

Foo2rama · Jun 2, 2020

N noxmot55
Thanks Foo for the info, I asked Omega for more info but they didn't answer to me. They refunded me for the extract request by sending me the aforementioned answer. I would like to understand what kind of moonwatch is in my hand because it looks like an assembled one but I don't think it is based on Omega's answer.

I can't say to have a 145.012 but.....

it would lead me to believe the movement was originally in a gold seamaster case that was made in the US.

Help about my speedmaster 321, made in USA?

noxmot55

Foo2rama

vbrad26

mac_omega

SpeedyPhill

noxmot55

Foo2rama

vbrad26

noxmot55

Foo2rama

BatDad

Foo2rama

noxmot55

vbrad26

BlackTalon

Dan S

noxmot55

mac_omega

gatorcpa

Foo2rama

Similar threads

Currently made in USA watches

Tell me about my Speedmaster? Please?

What can you tell me about my Speedmaster 145.022-71

Need advice about my Speedmaster 57 (9300) watch's issue

worried about my speedmaster authenticity

20mm Vintage Stitch Horween Shell--Made in USA--Introducing a New Color and Stitch!