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Hello and some questions

F
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Hello everyone,

I've just joined this forum after lurking for quite some time. The speedmaster has always been my dream watch and I'm looking to buy however I'm not an expert by any means. I have my eye on two specimens and tried to determine with help of the Speedmaster 101 site amongst other info but wanted to get your expert opinion as well.

First one I'm considering is this one:

https://preowned.schaapcitroen.nl/nl/omega-speedmaster-42-mm.html#form-2

Reputable dealer. They say pre-moon, but if I look at the watch, with help from 101 this one is heavily serviced? What's your opinion on the state and price?

Secondly, this one is on my list:

https://timelessfinders.com/product/omega-speedmaster-professional-moonwatch-3592-50/

My main question with this one is how the edges of the chrono clocks have gotten so worn/roughed up? I do not see that on other watches?

Could you please give me your opinions on the state of these watches and if these would be a solid buy in your opinion? Thank you in advance!
 
Aroxx
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Hi there, you'll want to attach pictures and prices here to your thread to make it easy for folks to provide their opinions and also for future posterity. Links eventually go bad but the pictures will stay here. I've attached them below for you.

I don't really know anything about old Speedmasters but #1 looks off to me. The minute track and crown look weird. There are no "T"s around Swiss Made. The lume looks like luminova. Either re-lumed or a service dial? I think it has service dial and hands. No movement or case back pictures. Very poor low-res pictures in general. Looks nothing like the 145.022 on speedmaster101. I think this is a hard pass. The experts will be here soon 😀.

#1: 145.022 - € 6.150,00

Screen Shot 2023-04-18 at 9.16.34 AM.png Screen Shot 2023-04-18 at 9.21.24 AM.png Screen Shot 2023-04-18 at 9.21.50 AM.png



#2: 3592.50 - €4.850,00

86358351-113C-4C52-91E8-4CBB5AD047D1_1_201_a-scaled.jpeg E7B8BCD6-703B-4CA1-A9B5-37A5F94301ED_1_201_a.jpeg F33C540A-9669-4BFE-A6EC-013F8F27370F_1_201_a-scaled.jpeg D46A49E8-4650-4B51-AB33-92A6C7DFA214_1_201_a-scaled.jpeg
 
Dan S
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F future2future
My main question with this one is how the edges of the chrono clocks have gotten so worn/roughed up?

What do you mean by "edges of the chrono clocks?"
 
Aroxx
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Dan S Dan S
What do you mean by "edges of the chrono clocks?"
Think he means this around the sub-registers.

86358351-113C-4C52-91E8-4CBB5AD047D1_1_201_a-scaled.jpeg
 
F
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Aroxx Aroxx
Hi there, you'll want to attach pictures and prices here to your thread to make it easy for folks to provide their opinions and also for future posterity. Links eventually go bad but the pictures will stay here. I've attached them below for you.

I don't really know anything about old Speedmasters but #1 looks off to me. The minute track and crown look weird. There are no "T"s around Swiss Made. The lume looks like luminova. Either re-lumed or a service dial? I think it has service dial and hands. No movement or case back pictures. Very poor low-res pictures in general. Looks nothing like the 145.022 on speedmaster101. I think this is a hard pass. The experts will be here soon 😀.

#1: 145.022 - € 6.150,00

Screen Shot 2023-04-18 at 9.16.34 AM.png Screen Shot 2023-04-18 at 9.21.24 AM.png Screen Shot 2023-04-18 at 9.21.50 AM.png



#2: 3592.50 - €4.850,00

86358351-113C-4C52-91E8-4CBB5AD047D1_1_201_a-scaled.jpeg E7B8BCD6-703B-4CA1-A9B5-37A5F94301ED_1_201_a.jpeg F33C540A-9669-4BFE-A6EC-013F8F27370F_1_201_a-scaled.jpeg D46A49E8-4650-4B51-AB33-92A6C7DFA214_1_201_a-scaled.jpeg

Thanks for the help!

I do get your comments about the first one, they are an official Omega dealer (and Rolex, IWC etc) so I would assume they are knowledgeable
 
Evitzee
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F future2future
I do get your comments about the first one, they are an official Omega dealer (and Rolex, IWC etc) so I would assume they are knowledgeable
Your assumption that they are knowledgeable needs to be questioned. Just because they are an Omega AD does not make them experts in anything.
 
Aroxx
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F future2future
Thanks for the help!

I do get your comments about the first one, they are an official Omega dealer (and Rolex, IWC etc) so I would assume they are knowledgeable
You're welcome. Ultimately a dealer is there to sell watches. Especially a butchered vintage that they want to offload on some poor sap 😀. You may be surprised how many dealers and watchmakers don't know much about vintage watches. It really is a very specialized knowledge with tons of nuance and not necessarily in their wheelhouse. Luckily, some of the experts on vintage Speedmasters reside here.
 
Passover
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#1:

Looking at the caseback it seems to be an 145.022-69 or older.

As pointed out already the dial as one of the essential (and valubale) parts of a vintage watch has been changed to a service dial. So most likely the hands have been changed too, Bezel is also a service part.

6000€ is the price for an orignal -69 in good to very good condition with all those valuable parts.

So this one is a pass for sure either from a private seller or an offical dealer
 
Mark020
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S&C knows nothing about vintage. Selling a service everything watch like this for such a price is a joke. I recommend AWCO if you want to buy a vintage Speedy in the Netherlands
 
F
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Mark020 Mark020
S&C knows nothing about vintage. Selling a service everything watch like this for such a price is a joke. I recommend AWCO if you want to buy a vintage Speedy in the Netherlands

Totally forgot about awco, thanks!
 
MtV
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Alternatively VintageMasters. Also an NL-based dealer (Groningen), Stan is a great guy.
 
kgb
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Here's a good article on 145.022 from Fratello: https://www.fratellowatches.com/buying-guide-omega-speedmaster-professional-145-022/#gref

As you can see, original 145.022 dials have creamy tritium markers and hands (and T SWISS MADE T), and have the beautiful droopy S and r in 'Speedmaster.' As others have pointed out, your #1 example has a replacement dial and has therefore lost originality, authenticity, and value (IMO).

I actually think the second one is really nice and fairly priced. I love the display caseback with the gilt 863 movement. This is somewhat rare. I have almost this same watch and love it!
Edited:
 
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