Has anyone used LoupeThis to sell a watch?

TDBK · Aug 25, 2023

Thanks for raising the question. @EricKu, it sounds like your position is that the description text on Loupe This is not part of the offer, and that the buyer cannot rely upon it; it is mere puffery and you have no responsibility for its correctness. Is that your position?

Text on your website would give me, a buyer, a different perception:

"All the watches listed are in the possession of Loupe This for the duration of the sale and will then be shipped to the winning bidder by the Loupe This team. Each watch is inspected, photographed, and cataloged. The entire sales process is managed internally, allowing clients to bid with absolute peace of mind."

"Each lot is meticulously scrutinized and vetted by our team of experienced watch experts, ensuring that every watch on Loupe This is collector worthy. A detailed description of the condition of each watch is included in its listing."

(Emphasis mine)

To me, these certainly seem to represent that your team inspects the watch and associated items and stands behind the accuracy of the listing, allowing bidders to rest their absolute peace of mind in their ability to trust Loupe This as opposed to some unknown seller.

If this is not the case, that would be good to know. If it is the case, can you help square it with the buyer's representations here? You assert that you were clear about the papers being blank, and that is also clear in the listing, but that is not the complaint; instead it is that they are not correct and original, which does appear to be a claim you have clearly made in the listing.

It seems to me that either you must claim that they *are* the original papers, or disclose that you don't stand behind the accuracy of your listings, or accept return of the watch or some other suitable resolution.

Tony C. · Aug 25, 2023

Based on the information presented thus far, if AP were to confirm that the box and papers are not associated with the watch that was sold, I don't see how @EricKu could reasonably refuse to reverse the transaction.

As a matter of law, it might be more complicated, but it appears that the package was misrepresented, and I would certainly never engage in business with a seller who refused to accept a return under such circumstances, irrespective of any "all sales are final" claim.

NotAClue · Aug 25, 2023

Tony C.
Based on the information presented thus far, if AP were to confirm that the box and papers are not associated with the watch that was sold, I don't see how @EricKu could reasonably refuse to reverse the transaction.

As a matter of law, it might be more complicated, but it appears that the package was misrepresented, and I would certainly never engage in business with a seller who refused to accept a return under such circumstances, irrespective of any "all sales are final" claim.

Could not say it better…

Mark020 · Aug 25, 2023

Difeer
I found it amusing that their ratings only ever went from 8 to 10.

Why? They can simply choose to sell only very good and better quality watches

Tony C. · Aug 25, 2023

Mark020
They can simply choose to sell only very good and better quality watches

True, they could, but looking at the definitions of their grades, they are clearly grading on a 'curve' that is favorable to them. By that I mean that while 9 is "near mint", 8 may have a polished case, nicks or scratches, discolored lume, and visible dial defects!

So in traditional collectors' parlance, if 9 is "near-mint", 8.5 is "excellent", and 8 is "good" to "very good", that is a compressed menu, and also arguably misleading, as 8/10 superficially implies something clearly better than "good".

fiberguy · Aug 25, 2023

is V 6 "missing movement or non-functioning movement"

Difeer · Aug 25, 2023

Mark020
Why? They can simply choose to sell only very good and better quality watches

Indeed, that is a possibility. However, in cases where ratings are limited in range, we often need to get a clear idea what represents the low rating.

The ones that are rated 8 on Loupe This are quite varied. Below are some 8s from recent auctions.

Of course, not all look like that. And yes they are free to decide how they rate the watches. And yes they do provide descriptions of their ratings. But like @Tony C. said, an 8 to a layman is typically quite a high rating. So it would be very important to be aware that 8s can look like those below. The rating is informative only when seller and buyer are both calibrated to the same scale.

Screenshot 2023-08-26 at 12.21.58 AM.png

Screenshot 2023-08-26 at 12.21.13 AM.png

Screenshot 2023-08-26 at 12.21.27 AM.png

gatorcpa · Aug 25, 2023

If this is an “8” of 10, I’d hate to see a “3”.
gatorcpa

Mark020 · Aug 25, 2023

Fair point. Some inflation there

cristos71 · Aug 25, 2023

gatorcpa

If this is an “8” of 10, I’d hate to see a “3”.
gatorcpa

I was going to give it a "4", but I think you're closer to the mark with a "3" 😲

gatorcpa · Aug 25, 2023

I didn’t give it a grade at all. I just wanted to understand the standards.
gatorcpa

AgentDouble07 · Aug 25, 2023

Tony C.
True, they could, but looking at the definitions of their grades, they are clearly grading on a 'curve' that is favorable to them. By that I mean that while 9 is "near mint", 8 may have a polished case, nicks or scratches, discolored lume, and visible dial defects!

So in traditional collectors' parlance, if 9 is "near-mint", 8.5 is "excellent", and 8 is "good" to "very good", that is a compressed menu, and also arguably misleading, as 8/10 superficially implies something clearly better than "good".

I fully agree Tony.

In my specific case, when reading “near mint”, which in my English vocabulary means near perfect (although I was born in Italy so I may have a langauge barrier) , I was not expecting the watch to have very rounded edges, being clearly polished and have a major scratch on the bracelet that was not advertised and barely visible by the picture (I noted a shade of the scratch only after I received the watch and went back to the picture)

I was very disappointed to say the least. I asked for a return, or to lower the price 10k, which is the average value of box and papers for a watch of this caliber. I thought my request was nothing but fair.

I think many times their grading is inflated. I think that today many sellers advertise burnt and damaged dials as “tropic” to create an exotic feeling. 5 years ago no collector would have considered those watches. In today’s inflated market (fortunately deflating) things are different.
I’ll survive.

I am picking up a PP5740 at my dealer in September after 2 years wait, and will internalize my anger looking at the perpetual calendar complication

AgentDouble07 · Aug 25, 2023

gatorcpa

If this is an “8” of 10, I’d hate to see a “3”.
gatorcpa

Ahahahah

Completely agree

Dan S · Aug 25, 2023

In my experience with auctions, it's primarily up to the buyer to determine the condition based on photos provided. If the photos don't show the condition adequately, you can request more photos, or just walk away. Descriptions, and especially ratings systems, are arbitrary and qualitative, so I'm not putting much stock in the complaint about the alleged case polishing, scratches, etc. Those issues should have been immediately visible to an experienced collector. And frankly, I think those complaints are simply confounding things by distracting from the more valid point about the allegedly mismatched papers.

Perhaps if the buyer were willing to have a reasoned discussion with the auction house, without irrelevant claims about condition, exaggerated demands for partial refunds, and (especially) threats, an accommodation could still be reached. I'm sorry that you're unhappy with the purchase, and I do believe that it's fair to expect a factually accurate description. But I don't think it's particularly helpful to project an entitled attitude based on your perception that you are a "wealthy client."

cristos71 · Aug 26, 2023

gatorcpa
I didn’t give it a grade at all. I just wanted to understand the standards.
gatorcpa

Well I realise that I was trying to make a humorous comment 🙄

AgentDouble07 · Aug 26, 2023

Dan S
In my experience with auctions, it's primarily up to the buyer to determine the condition based on photos provided. If the photos don't show the condition adequately, you can request more photos, or just walk away. Descriptions, and especially ratings systems, are arbitrary and qualitative, so I'm not putting much stock in the complaint about the alleged case polishing, scratches, etc. Those issues should have been immediately visible to an experienced collector. And frankly, I think those complaints are simply confounding things by distracting from the more valid point about the allegedly mismatched papers.

Perhaps if the buyer were willing to have a reasoned discussion with the auction house, without irrelevant claims about condition, exaggerated demands for partial refunds, and (especially) threats, an accommodation could still be reached. I'm sorry that you're unhappy with the purchase, and I do believe that it's fair to expect a factually accurate description. But I don't think it's particularly helpful to project an entitled attitude based on your perception that you are a "wealthy client."

I appreciate your feedback Dan

As you said, the focus of my complaint were the box and papers. Advertised as part of the watch and they clearly were not. The conditions…I mean “near mint” means near mint. I was not happy when the watch showed major scratches and rounded edges that I personally could not really see in the pictures.

My personal opinion: if an “expert” is selling/auctioning a watch on his/her platform, and the watch has rounded edges and has been polished, it should be disclosed.

I find hard to believe that a client does not receive any protection if the assigned item does not correspond correctly to its description.

I inquired about this to competent offices in the State of California. Unfortunately these online businesses have very loose and sometimes no regulations.

I do not believe that being “wealthy” gave me any right, I am a returning client in the platform and everyone should have been offered an adequate customer service and support.

Has anyone used LoupeThis to sell a watch?

TDBK

Tony C.

NotAClue

Mark020

Tony C.

fiberguy

Difeer

gatorcpa

Mark020

cristos71

gatorcpa

AgentDouble07

AgentDouble07

Dan S

cristos71

AgentDouble07

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