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Has anyone managed to confirm if the previous extract team were just creating dial information?

Sharp
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Hi there,

I could not find a recent thread focused on this topic but EOA validity is getting regular mentions in other threads so is surely of some interest to members.

I am very curious if anyone has been able to validate if Omega have archive information for Speedmaster dials / Ultraman hands / any model I suppose? Or if they have been cooking it up based on serial ranges/user submitted images during the old extract request process.

I am sure we have members who have interacted with the museum directly, penned some of the best books on vintage Omega, and are much more informed than myself, but in 2024 from what I can see on the forum this still a bit of a mystery?

I don’t really want to deep dive individual examples but feel one should be included for context:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/speedmaster-rare-dial.161888/

This extract for a-63 has the sort of dial information I am curious about. As noted by other members the choice of wording is unusual, and it theoretically validates this dial despite it having very green/short indexes colour one would usually associate with a late 60s/70s production date.

(Thanks for sharing it in full publicly William 👍)

I noticed this old thread with an interesting comment from member Mailollo:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ext...otype-at-monaco-legend-auctions.120484/page-8

-----
MaiLollo said:

"To be honest, I learned everything I needed to know about EOA last year, when I requested an extract for a racing 69 Speedy. They asked for pictures as they told me the archives don't mention dial information. My extract was issued with the "correct" racing dial mention.

At first I was glad since I knew the watch was kosher (bought from the first owner), but then I realized that EOAs are only useful to determine if a movement was born in x or y reference, but worthless when it comes to authenticating dials & other special features.”
-----

This seems pretty ominous but I would be happy to hear of any information on the contrary, other members experiences, do people think or know for sure if these extracts are valid/fantasy?

Cheers,
 
mac_omega
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While preparing my chronometre book I have been allowed to research in the Omega archives and search through thousands of microfiche data.
Well, my search field was only in the late 30ies till the start of the 50ies. In none of the entries I read there was any mention of the dial style/execution.
However I don´t know if there was a difference in much younger watches of the 60ies onwards.
 
Spacefruit
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Good topic

I am told the following:

the black racing dials and the Ultraman both have punch cards in the archive, and these cards have a mark indicating positive for “special equipment “ .

there is no indication of specific dial or hand configuration.

I am told that no ultra or Black Racing would be confirmed if there is no mark for special equipment on the card.

Further, up to 2011 the papers were indeed issued on a casual or favour basis. After 2011 it was strictly checked for movement / reference validation.

As to the blue soleil dials, omega employees have confirmed that they believe at least some of the watches currently in public domain came from omega with the dials. However I have seen no evidence apart from extracts. (Which thanks the the frausters are now called into question- class action anyone?)

I have no good source telling me these are service dials, though it would make sense.

however the golden rule is that the truth of any situation often isn’t believed because it doesn’t make sense.

truth is often stranger than fiction
Edited:
 
Sharp
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The above replies contain invaluable information I was not aware of so I am already glad I asked - thanks guys
 
pdxleaf
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Spacefruit Spacefruit
Good topic. Dials

....omega employees have confirmed that they believe at least some of the watches currently in public domain came from omega with the dials....

I have no good source telling me these are service dials, though it would make sense.

however the golden rule is that the truth of any situation often isn’t believed because it doesn’t make sense.

The historical truth can be obscured because we don't ask enough questions. "Omega employees said some watches came from Omega with the dials" could mean "came from Omega as new production" or "came from Omega after service replacements." Two people can hear the same thing and come away with completely different conclusions, both being certain of the accuracy because they heard it themselves from the Omega employee.

I'm just using the above as an example of one point and not saying anything about the soleil dials themselves.

Like the OP and many others, I am also curious about just exactly what is in the archives, but don't expect to ever know the details. Your information about the marks indicating the existence of "special equipment" is the clearest information I have read about what type of details are in the archives. This would give me more assurance of the originality of a watch if an extract simply said "special equipment" rather than if it said "blue solely dial", or whatever. To include in an extract more than what is actually recorded in the archives puts it all in doubt. Omega could add a note stating that the "special equipment" is thought to be an orange chronograph hand, (for example), based on the watch reference and production number. Something along those lines.

Sure wish they'd give someone from the community more access to their archives. It would go a long ways towards building trust in the results.
 
Fallout Boy
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I know the rumor (ROLEX) that punched cards were often given to the dealer (or reordered) in large numbers at that time. Reasons: Spelling error when filling in the form, loss (customer, retailer) And now?
 
spacemission
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
The historical truth can be obscured because we don't ask enough questions. "Omega employees said some watches came from Omega with the dials" could mean "came from Omega as new production" or "came from Omega after service replacements." Two people can hear the same thing and come away with completely different conclusions, both being certain of the accuracy because they heard it themselves from the Omega employee.

I'm just using the above as an example of one point and not saying anything about the soleil dials themselves.

Like the OP and many others, I am also curious about just exactly what is in the archives, but don't expect to ever know the details. Your information about the marks indicating the existence of "special equipment" is the clearest information I have read about what type of details are in the archives. This would give me more assurance of the originality of a watch if an extract simply said "special equipment" rather than if it said "blue solely dial", or whatever. To include in an extract more than what is actually recorded in the archives puts it all in doubt. Omega could add a note stating that the "special equipment" is thought to be an orange chronograph hand, (for example), based on the watch reference and production number. Something along those lines.

Sure wish they'd give someone from the community more access to their archives. It would go a long ways towards building trust in the results.

Fallout Boy Fallout Boy
I know the rumor (ROLEX) that punched cards were often given to the dealer (or reordered) in large numbers at that time. Reasons: Spelling error when filling in the form, loss (customer, retailer) And now?

For example, do you think rolex will tell us which serial numbers were fitted with the all red hand from factory?
 
Dan S
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I'm amazed that they give anyone access to the archives without an NDA.
 
bardamu
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I have a Speedmaster Mark II racing dial with an EOA confirming that the dial is "grey and orange with luminous indexes".
Watch delivered to US in october, 1973.
 
Archer
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spacemission spacemission
For example, do you think rolex will tell us which serial numbers were fitted with the all red hand from factory?

Rolex will tell you nothing, and you will like it.
 
mac_omega
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Dan S Dan S
I'm amazed that they give anyone access to the archives without an NDA.

Unfortunately no longer after the "scandal" with the 2915... 🙁
 
pdxleaf
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Longines' archives are a better role model for Omega than Rolex.

But, point taken. They are all large manufacturers and it might be naive to think they should open up their records to the public. It's not naive to expect them to have been less sloppy.

Oh well, four years ago I had never heard of an extract so who am I to kvetch.
 
spacemission
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Archer Archer
Rolex will tell you nothing, and you will like it.

I don't care. I already have the information that I want, and not by rolex. It would be good to unmask phonies.
 
pdxleaf
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spacemission spacemission
I don't care. I already have the information that I want, and not by rolex. It would be good to unmask phonies.

Please elaborate.
 
Archer
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spacemission spacemission
I don't care. I already have the information that I want, and not by rolex. It would be good to unmask phonies.

So unofficial then...
 
OneTwo
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bardamu bardamu
I have a Speedmaster Mark II racing dial with an EOA confirming that the dial is "grey and orange with luminous indexes".
Watch delivered to US in october, 1973.
Out of curiosity, was a photo of the watch face showing the dial included/required in the EoA request? Additionally, was the EoA request made via the online process or at a OB in the USA?
 
spacemission
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Archer Archer
So unofficial then...

Reductio ad absurdum.

Look, if you want you can read a thread opened by the great mad dog. It is about speedmasters and I wrote a post. You'll understand it.
 
Archer
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spacemission spacemission
Reductio ad absurdum.

Look, if you want you can read a thread opened by the great mad dog. It is about speedmasters and I wrote a post. You'll understand it.

I understand everything I need to...
 
hansaboy
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spacemission spacemission
Reductio ad absurdum.

Look, if you want you can read a thread opened by the great mad dog. It is about speedmasters and I wrote a post. You'll understand it.
Had to google up that latin stuff...Think that I was out surfin when the teacher had the lessons...
😁

Skärmavbild 2024-02-20 kl. 20.43.41.png
 
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