Only problem with that theory is Cordite does not require oxygen in order to burn or explode.
Single base propellants will not burn when wet, double base propellants will.
If flooding the magazine had any effect it was to douse a fire before it reached the propellant.
Naval shells with cartridge casings, up to five inch at least, don't immediately explode if exposed to fire, cordite packed in bags, as in larger caliber guns does explode rapidly. Getting the bags wet can increase the safety window before the first bag goes up and sympathetic explosions take the entire magazine.

The problem of spontaneous detonation of Cordite exposed for hours to temperatures over 125 degrees F remained.
The Japanese lost a cruiser at anchor when the ventilator system of the magazine failed in tropic heat.
When temperature reached 125 F the Nitroglycerin began to separate from the binding agents, allowing pure nitro to pool in the bottom of bags and casings. One hard bump and it all went up.

Tracing the exact cause of Cordite magazine explosions is not always easy since few if any of those who could have witnessed the chain of events survived.
An example would be the Port Chicago explosion, where Torpex, a British explosive related to Cordite and used in depth charges, detonated without certain cause.

 

Thanks - there was a strong element of luck - People must have known about it back then as it is in the film but over time just another tit-bit of knowledge which got lost as the generation dies off. It has led me down a rabbit hole to get a much deeper understanding of the whole topic - the journey and not the arrival is the fun part. I have not been able to identify his actual watch but it does look like a lot of the squadron had a similar watch / strap design. I think this thread has run its course for what I needed but I have put one up to try and chase down the strap. I suspect that will have an air ministry part number or requisition given the nature of the squadron and importance of the mission.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ww2-raf-standard-issue-watch-straps-bund-style.123908/#post-1667386

 

Hi
The Guy Gibson Log Book is with IWM, only it was reproduced printed and published many years ago for interested parties. It looks exactly the same as the original with notes and different coloured inks etc.

 

A belated thanks for sharing your research. Well done.

 

My research is ongoing and I should have something extra to report soon (a bit time poor to follow up on things). Regarding Wing Commander Brendan Eamonn Fergus (Paddy) Finucane this is a great shot (he is congratulating his wing man Sgt Keith B Chisholm). The wartime censor has removed some details but left his wristwatch alone - anyone hazard a guess what it is?

 

Cartier Tank Cintrée... ?

 

Would be interesting to know what the censors scrubbed out...

 

On the right it's a face, on the left is unclear.



This version of the photo also provides a slightly better look at the watch.

 

Thanks for the new version of the picture - cracking quality. Also a very nice watch for a 21 year-old to be sporting which shows they were important for the pilots. @Charlemagne1333 - looks like the censor was just blacking the aircraft out which might make sense operationally. I imagine from Paddy's service history and looking a the photo from @MRC it is a Spitfire / they probably did not want people to know how many we had and who flew what / from where. Do we still think Cartier Tank Cintrée ?

 

I’m not sure.
I think the Cintrée case is more elongated, and curved. The watch in the photo is more oblong than square, but not quite Cintrée proportions

 

It is frustrating - so near and yet so far - it is a much clearer photo. I does not appear to have a sub-seconds .. but hard to tell 100%

 

16-17/05/21 will be the 78th anniversary for the Dams raid.

My research continues and I recently bought a copy of Wing Commander Guy Gibsons log book from the Royal Air Force Museum.
617 Squadron formed on March 21st – 1943 – so just 56 days / 8 weeks to form and train for such a complex mission, and before the weapons and tactics had been fully developed – amazing.

From 170 missions Guy Gibson took part in this one stands out for me – trying to skip bombs into railway tunnels in 1940 to stop the advance on Dunkirk. Flying a Hampden Bomber at night, A plane which had the speed, manoeuvrability and armour of a transit van compared to the opposition. His flares would not drop so no target visibility, clearly time to abort the mission, drop bombs and head home… Hell no. Time to fly super low-level along the railway line at 200mph using aircraft navigation lights to illuminate the sleepers and your Navigators Aldis signalling lamp as a headlight, trying to pick up out cliff ahead. All this making you visible to anti-aircraft guns and night fighters…Bomb aimer calls cliff ahead, Bombs gone skipping into the tunnel and then a full throttle vertical climb just clearing the 400-foot cliff by a few feet. Awe inspiring stuff.

Reading the log book for the Dams raid…. Led attack on Mohne and Eder Dams, successful …. Next page… simply reads - awarded VC.

Home for bacon, eggs and medals stuff – tragic so many people like this were lost on all sides.

 

Great pic of the Hampden.
It’s a pity there are no airworthy examples remaining, although I think the ones on display are pretty well restored.

 

Lovely watch - I am still trying to get the link to work (I have asked to register again) In my research I was gifted this from AP175 manual which might be of interest for you.

 

Not 617 Squadron related but I came across this wonderful photo. One of the men is Wing Commander Paul Farnes - who only died last year.
I think this is probably taken at RAF Kenley during the Battle of Britain - Farnes was in 501 Squadron and became an ace. They were not rested during the entire campaign. The Hurricane in the background looks to be from 615 Squadron which was officially based at Kenley. A few wrist watches in this shot. Having a laugh and a joke they could be having after dinner drinks in their suits - not waiting for a scramble call and mortal combat against overwhelming odds.
A great quote from Wing Commander Farnes….also below

 

78 Years today Since the 617 Squadron Dam Busters raid started.

19 planes with 8 crews lost (53 killed and 3 taken prisoner).
Low flying gave them little chance (the attack height alone was only 60 feet)

2 hit power lines outbound; 3 shot down outbound; 3 returned without attacking;11 attacked; 1 shot down over target; 2 shot down homebound; 8 attacked target and returned

Eighty men survived the raid. Of these, 22 were killed serving in 617 Squadron later in the war and 10 more were killed while serving with other squadrons (including Gibson of course). Only 48 men of the 133 who took part in the raid survived the war.

The more I research and read the more amazing their achievements and bravery are.

One of the planes which returned lost its bomb and two engines hitting the Sea. On the outbound Journey Gibson talks about flying / hiding behind tall trees to avoid Flak gunners. And the entire squadron formed and trained in only 8 weeks.

RIP to all those men.

 

Unrelated to the watch, but after the raid, Gibson was sent on a tour of Canada and the US. At one of the stops in the US, he was addressing a large crowd, and someone in the audience asked him how many combat missions he had flown. This was at a time when American airmen were being rotated home after 25. He answered "174 missions." The crowd was stunned into silence. Mistaking their silence for disapproval of a low total, he added "But I'm going back for more after this tour."

 

Great story – I think a tour length for RAF bomber crews was 30 missions. So in effect he completed nearly 6 tours and still resisted going to training units or taking a desk job. I have read tour lengths were to give to aircrews clear targets, length should be such that usually an aircrew got through it without being overly fatigued and had a 50 - 50 chance to survive it. Then a rest period of ½ year working at an Operational Training Unit (OTU) or in a desk job, then a second tour. A late 1942 study showed a day fighter pilot had 43% chances to survive one tour and 18½% chances to survive two tours, a long-range fighter pilot had better chances, 59½% and 35½%, a night fighter pilot less, 39% and 15%, heavy and medium bomber crews had almost the same as day fighter pilots, 44% and 19½%. Torpedo bomber crews had the worst chances, 17½ and 3½, Catalina flying boat crews the best, 77½ and 60%. The average for the all 13 groups mentioned in the table was 47½% and 25½%.

Not odds anyone would want to take - all very brave men.

 

I've done a bit of reading about military aviation from back then, and it's surprising to me, I don't think lax is the right word, but how much less emphasis there was on safety. No one had heard of crew rest, and maintenance crews were only beginning to understand metal fatigue. For the carrier pilots, air-sea rescue was in its infancy. A lot of the stuff I've read about, if it happened today, would get the CO fired, but back then it was just accepted as part of the job. That doesn't surprise me about the torpedo bomber crews being so low; I just finished a book about Midway, where the USN lost 35 out of 41 torpedo planes.

 

the horror...