Guy Gibson VC Dam Busters 617 squadron. Which watch did he wear?

Omegafanman · Oct 10, 2020

I have been trying to find out what wrist watch (or watches!) Guy Gibson of Dam Busters fame wore.
In looking through the photos I was again reminded how desperately young and brave these men were. Richard Todd was 36 when he played Gibson in the famous film - but Wing Commander Guy Penrose Gibson, VC, DSO, & Bar, DFC & Bar was only 24 when he commanded the actual raid.
Anyway, I have tracked down a photo of his watch which hopefully someone can identify. He also seemed to switch wrists and I am also interested if someone can shed any light on that ?
Looking at the photos a few watches can be seen. I still love how small and understated the Air ministry watches were compared to the German Luftwaffe Flieger watches. Wing Commander Guy looks to have taken that to another level.
Some images are from the imperial war museum- reproduced here for educational purposes only (fair use).
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Omegafanman · Oct 10, 2020

The left sleeve mystery...…

In a few shots he appears to have tissue / something under his left sleeve. I don’t think it is a cuff. It is reported he was hospitalised on the 11/05/42 The exact reason is unknown, but suggestions include a sinus problem. Maybe there was a reason why he started to wear his watch on his right wrist?
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Omegafanman · Oct 10, 2020

Two watches - left or right wrist?
To add to the confusion in some shots it looks like he is wearing two watches?
I believe he was right-handed? but at some point, he is certainly wearing his watch on his right wrist.
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Omegafanman · Oct 10, 2020

This is the best still of his watch (worn on his right wrist and taken after the raid at a medal ceremony). I have not seen any reference to his personal watch on display. He did not survive the war - killed in a Mosquito plane crash in the Netherlands. Possibly the watch was lost then or buried with him?

Interested if anyone can identify it from these pictures.
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Omegafanman · Oct 10, 2020

I have posted these before but just a few Lancaster shots, a Dam buster 617 raid memorial (RIP) and a 6B/159
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Charlemagne1333 · Oct 11, 2020

A diificult one, this.

There’s no discernible detail in the dial, so there’s not much to pin it down. The only clue seems to be the lugs, which are fairly substantial compared to the case size. The lugs give the impression that they’re fixed, so maybe another clue. A reverse search doesn’t reveal much.
I might have suggested something like a Smiths Astral, many of which had small cases, but the lugs on these tend to be much slimmer.

Even by the smaller proportions of the period, I would say the one in the photos is definitely a ladies watch - which might explain why he’s wearing two timepieces, and this one being on his right wrist.
It was very common for servicemen, especially pilots, to be given good luck charms by their female relatives and loved ones. Maybe this was given to him by his wife.
The strap on the left wrist appears to be much wider - I’m guessing the cuff is hiding something a little more appropriate, probably an Omega CK2129, a standard issued flight watch, given his bomber pilot status.

Great pics, btw

Omegafanman · Oct 11, 2020

Charlemagne1333
A diificult one, this.

There’s no discernible detail in the dial, so there’s not much to pin it down. The only clue seems to be the lugs, which are fairly substantial compared to the case size. The lugs give the impression that they’re fixed, so maybe another clue. A reverse search doesn’t reveal much.
I might have suggested something like a Smiths Astral, many of which had small cases, but the lugs on these tend to be much slimmer.

Even by the smaller proportions of the period, I would say the one in the photos is definitely a ladies watch - which might explain why he’s wearing two timepieces, and this one being on his right wrist.
It was very common for servicemen, especially pilots, to be given good luck charms by their female relatives and loved ones. Maybe this was given to him by his wife.
The strap on the left wrist appears to be much wider - I’m guessing the cuff is hiding something a little more appropriate, probably an Omega CK2129, a standard issued flight watch, given his bomber pilot status.

Great pics, btw

Thanks - I think the lucky charm idea makes sense - he had a rough start in life (see link below) and his Mother died in tragic circumstances. I get the sense she did her best by him despite having some very significant issues. Maybe it was her watch. I guess we will never know. He also married an older showgirl during the war so that is a possibility. I agree they are fixed lugs - I had not considered it might be a ladies watch -good call.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/dam-busters-heroic-leader.html
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Omegafanman · Oct 11, 2020

Charlemagne1333
A diificult one, this.

There’s no discernible detail in the dial, so there’s not much to pin it down. The only clue seems to be the lugs, which are fairly substantial compared to the case size. The lugs give the impression that they’re fixed, so maybe another clue. A reverse search doesn’t reveal much.
I might have suggested something like a Smiths Astral, many of which had small cases, but the lugs on these tend to be much slimmer.

Even by the smaller proportions of the period, I would say the one in the photos is definitely a ladies watch - which might explain why he’s wearing two timepieces, and this one being on his right wrist.
It was very common for servicemen, especially pilots, to be given good luck charms by their female relatives and loved ones. Maybe this was given to him by his wife.
The strap on the left wrist appears to be much wider - I’m guessing the cuff is hiding something a little more appropriate, probably an Omega CK2129, a standard issued flight watch, given his bomber pilot status.

Great pics, btw

This is the best shot I could find of his left wrist - not enough detail I am afraid.

Charlemagne1333 · Oct 11, 2020

It would be interesting to see how his younger years would be portrayed, if they made a modern biopic.

In those times, his childhood would have been considered character building.

Charlemagne1333 · Oct 11, 2020

Omegafanman
This is the best shot I could find of his left wrist - not enough detail I am afraid.

Certainly looks bigger, whatever it may be

Professor · Oct 11, 2020

Charlemagne1333
It was very common for servicemen, especially pilots, to be given good luck charms by their female relatives and loved ones. Maybe this was given to him by his wife.

It occurred to me that it might not be a watch but rather carry a photo of a loved one.
Among my Father's things from WW2 I found a old wrist watch that had been converted to a wrist locket, the movement probably removed and a photo of mom put in under the crystal.
It was a small watch, more of a boys style, with square crystal and slender leather band.

Omegafanman · Oct 11, 2020

Professor
It occurred to me that it might not be a watch but rather carry a photo of a loved one.
Among my Father's things from WW2 I found a old wrist watch that had been converted to a wrist locket, the movement probably removed and a photo of mom put in under the crystal.
It was a small watch, more of a boys style, with square crystal and slender leather band.

He also looks to have worn it very loose - so that might be an option compared to a working watch - another good thought - thanks

Charlemagne1333 · Oct 11, 2020

Omegafanman
This is the best shot I could find of his left wrist - not enough detail I am afraid.

There seems to be a small protrusion on the watch case, in that photo. I wonder if it’s the bezel locking crown of CK2129? It’s in the right position.

Not that it would reveal anything surprising, though

Charlemagne1333 · Oct 11, 2020

Professor
It occurred to me that it might not be a watch but rather carry a photo of a loved one.
Among my Father's things from WW2 I found a old wrist watch that had been converted to a wrist locket, the movement probably removed and a photo of mom put in under the crystal.
It was a small watch, more of a boys style, with square crystal and slender leather band.

Very possible - might explain the lack of detail in the dial

Professor · Oct 11, 2020

Modern wrist locket
Hinged cover made from military buttons.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/704034...5461&msclkid=51b7d821409413f6f6da87a3adb71b1d

Omegafanman · Oct 11, 2020

Charlemagne1333
There seems to be a small protrusion on the watch case, in that photo. I wonder if it’s the bezel locking crown of CK2129? It’s in the right position.

Not that it would reveal anything surprising, though

It is a good shout - from some of the other pictures I was not sure if it was just a single crown. Based on the issued numbers (2000 ish CK2129 versus 110,000 CK or UK2292 I was thinking more of a 2292. Then again Bader (who went to the same prep school) was a Rolex guy / some had personal preference pieces of course. I don't know how the 2129 got allocated or if the 2292 did have better anti-magnetic features (I think I read that) - for sure it would have been cheaper without the bezel which would be a big driver for the MOD in terms of numbers. Gibson did have a spell in multi-role two seaters which included night fighting, and ultimately he was killed in a two seater Mosquito. They are fighters but also have a Navigator so maybe the 2129 pilot watch was less needed compared to single seaters.
I am sure you have seen these on other posts - but for others interest I will post up:-
Order for the 2000-off famous CK2129 watches + a still from Dunkirk film.
Omega CK/UK2129 post war advert
Air Ministry - CK2129/UK2129 Instruments section.... restricted & top secret :0)
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Omegafanman · Oct 11, 2020

Slightly off topic - but I have this shot of another VC winner who sadly did not survive the war - James Brindley Nicolson VC.
The story of his VC is amazing - and all while wearing a business suit and office shoes in effect... but still deciding to climb back into a burning / crashing plane and carry on fighting for a bit.. Looking at this picture it is hard to tell the watch type. At this time he was a fighter pilot / single seat Hurricanes.

river rat · Oct 11, 2020

Can't say much about what watch he is wearing. But all ways wondered why they did not use a torpedo to take out the Dam the barrel type bombs seem so difficult from that old WW2 movie I seen years ago if it was not dropped right to bunce on the water to the target you missed the mark. My Dad was in US Navy squadron VA-195 in the Korean War they used the only torpedo's used in the Korean War to take out the Hwachon Dam you don't hear much about these American Dam Busters but a torpedo you think would of made the job easier in WW2. A little info on the raid on the Hwachon Dam in the Korean War.
https://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/history-up-close/birth-of-the-dambusters-at-hwachon-dam/

Professor · Oct 11, 2020

river rat
But all ways wondered why they did not use a torpedo to take out the Dam

The Germans had deployed torpedo nets at the reservoir dams for just that reason.

river rat · Oct 11, 2020

I know this is a Omega Forum but the RAF used a lot of other brand watches in WW2 here is a odd one I picked up some years ago.

Don't see many of these sandman did a good thread on these at the MWR forum some years ago learned a lot about this watch in that thread. Got this cheap at a NAWCC mart because none thought it was real my good luck every two months we had a local mart then got it two months after I saw it the first time passed on it the first time not being sure about it. The price was better the second time I saw it for sell and took the chance glad I did. Waltham movement in a Dennison case. The thread about these on MWR
https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/sho...34)-wristwatch&highlight=raf+Dennison+waltham