So I got this last night around 8pm. I’m big on seiko just kinda got into them. Unfortunately this is a little over polished but I paid a fair price. Hacking works, quick set date change works, since last night it’s keeping time to the alpanist I set it to. I like the watch despite its failings, I mean we all have them, who amongst you is righteous. Figured I’d put it up. Seller is very cool he will take it back without hesitation but I’m probably gonna drop it off for a service and keep it, just wanted some assessment on those who know these better than me, which is pretty much anyone.

 

My seikos thus far I have a couple more my wife hid from the thieves I have yet to locate

 

case lines look quite sharp actually and not too over polished as you said. Also, the gold medallion is still intact and not been prised off as you see on a few examples. Enjoy!

 

Just to make sure: were you aware / did the seller disclose that this was a redial? There were no black dialled versions of this reference, only white and blue.

 

Correct but did you see historically these turn black and are nearly impossible to find in the original blue? When they do have the blue color they are at a premium I really don’t think this is a redial seeing them black like this is quite common.

 

I’m just not seeing redial

 

Of course I just realized my picture is blurry but the lacquer is so damn thick I’m not thinking redial

 

Yes, that is true, they turn quite dark over time, I have a 4522-7000 that has had this happen. However to my eye this is all black and also (again to my eye) has a different finish to the dial surface, like there is a thick layer of paint / lacquer, whereas the original is very flat. Furthermore, the hour markers should be silver, not white, and the same applies to the minute hand.

Black ones are indeed quite common among eBay sellers etc, however they are not original. Many original examples have suffered water / moisture damage at some point, and have been repainted - sometimes black, as that is quite popular with buyers. Similar thing to what happens to vintage Omegas etc.

Here’s one that is all original: https://thegrandseikoguy.com/product/grand-seiko-5645-7010-blue-dial/

Edit:
Accidentally linked a 5645 instead of a 5646, here’s the one I meant to refer to, however of course the dials are pretty much the same: https://thegrandseikoguy.com/product/grand-seiko-5646-7010-2/

 

Yeah I see what your saying and I’m more than happy to be proven wrong. One issue I’m having is the whiteness off the markers but they kind of play with the light and will appear whiter depending on how I hold it. The dial, lettering and numbers look solid tbh but I do need to look a little further at the hardware. Thanks

 

Shoot now I’m debating with me self I am the worst person for me to debate with I am so annoying

https://www.chrono24.com/seiko/grand-seiko-vintage--id18009319.htm

 

That looks a redial too, however there’s at least one original one on Chrono24:
https://www.chrono24.fi/seiko/seiko-56gs-grand-seiko-hi-beat-with-hirsch--id19119498.htm

Compare the HI-BEAT script too, the font is smaller on the (known) original watches. Dial code is also different (7010 vs 7020), however I am not sure if this is due to the colour.

 

I thought the blue dials faded to grey as per Gerald’s article, I would also say this is a redial.
The hyphen on ‘Hi-Beat’ is too thin/small compared to the original.

 

Ha this is very interesting even though I’m on the downside of this. I don’t think there was any attempt to deceive in this purchase I think the dude who got is more like me and not aware of all the intricacies. If this a redial be, hats off as it is very well done. I’m kinda torn at the moment. I like the damn watch. But now every time I look at it will it bother me too much. I think this is why I’ve been leaning more towards new purchases lately. Less to question when you are buying direct from a manufacturer or joma shop etc. you miss out on the history of course but everything will be old in due time. Now I have to play taxi for my wife as I deal with this extensional watch crisis. This is the first time I ran into this issue but I bought this when I was going through a bout of insomnia and liken it to a drunken eBay purchase. Now I need to decide what to do.

 

I’m trying to see if there is any notation of the 7010t. Can’t really find anything, could that be a franken code or something? Seems odd that error would be made when the script is so carefully done.

 

Well I started the return thing. I was seriously considering keeping it as I still find it nice looking but I shot over to talk to my watch maker and he closed up early. I did more research and this is more common than I even thought. Honestly I’m so used to seeing bad omega redials on these it’s like next level stuff and it passes so many of the tests they tell you to look for, like the suwa symbol on the dial matching the one on the medallion. But yeah live and learn. It’s just a watch, no reason to flip out. I talked to the guy I’m 100% he picked it up thinking it was legit and is just moving it to pic something else up. If he offers me a decent amount back I might keep it but my intention is to send it back at this point. Thanks for pointing those things out very helpful.

 

Well this was kind of funny. Although I got the watch at an eBay type site it’s a seller I’ve dealt with in the past who has always been fair with me, lives in the town I work in and we were planning on meeting up. I sent him a message to let him know I was requesting to return the watch due to my questions about its dial. I was apologetic as I do like the watch and the seller. Well he got back to me with an even more apologetic response saying he feels terrible as he never would have sold it if he had been aware of the issues I pointed out he showed me the link where he purchased it from the same sight. So yeah two guys apologizing to each other about causing an inconvenience. Shoot I’m even writing a letter thanking him for being cool during the process. This stuff happens, I’m not like the smartest watch guy in the world. It runs beautifully though it is a legit GS movement, very nice power reserve I might keep hunting for one but it’s said your best buying them from Japan these days too many of these altered ones floating around here, not that they cant be found but a guy on you tube recommended buying from Japan (Japanese seller) and people on YouTube are always right.

 

Good to hear the seller took it back and the relationship was unspoilt.

I spent a few years working my way through 56GS models to find two keepers - sometimes you can only really learn the final details with it in your hands under under a loupe; no amount of website guides or hi def photos can tell you everything.

I would heavily recommend the Japan route, not just on price but generally the sellers highlight issues and take good photos. You can then compare to sites like Gerald's, mentioned above (grandseikoguy.com) and make a judgement. Note the import taxes though for your country.

One this example the black dial, text spacing/font and polishing were the main red flags, as noted, but also the operation of the day/date advancement at first stage can also be an fiddly and expensive fix if required at service. More difficult to check, and my watchmaker has a few stories of worn parts and bad 'temporary' fixes over the years.

Having the original facets and Tanaka lines I believe is imperative for these 'Grammar of Design' cases. Note how the original lugs brusing looks - always a good tell.

Here's one of my keepers, originally bought as a parts watch, obviously, for ~$250, but came with the XQB GS bracelet and turned out to be surprisingly clean inside. I am hardly ever interested in patina, but the 'Mouldy Lemon' has become a warm weather beater. Note the 56 dials are prone to discolouring and changing.





Good luck.

 

Ya thanks funny I was just talking to the seller last night and we planned a meet up so it’s cool. This was actually a good learning experience. These vintage seikos can be crazy. I may look again and even consider Japan but it’s not like I’m in desperate need of a GS. I watched a number of you tube videos showing how common these redials are. So l learned something, didn’t cost me anything they are beautiful watches I just don’t know if I want to play detective. I actually like the look of the one you have there.

 

They did also make silver dials of this model.