I would like to show you my latest Speedmaster. If you can believe it was grime on the watch that drew me to it.
On first glance it looked like a franken assembled speedmaster from junk parts. The Speedmaster had a steeped service dial, hour and minute hands from a 105.003 and a latter chrono hand with very ugly lume. The crown was also wrong for this reference, but the movement number was 19583XXX, spot on for the 62.
I almost dismissed it when I spotted the Generation 1 7912/6 bracelet that is correct for the 62. On closer inspection I noticed that it also had the small pushers and the double steeped caseback. The bezel was tired but was DON and the case looked pretty decent for the years, polished long time ago. There was also grime around the bezel and the bracelet. The question was if anyone would go through all that trouble to make a frankenmaster, find the correct bracelet, movement, case and not clean the watch. Or add the alpha seamaster hands that at least look like the correct hands, they are inexpensive and everywhere.
I could be completely wrong, but this watch looked to me like the original owner watch sold on a commission. It probably led a hard life, been to Bienne once or twice in the 60's, had some parts replaced with "improved" versions and left in a drawer. The dial has probably been with the watch for some time, it had a nice patina to it and the lume markers were a nice yellow and little bit dirty.
If I was right this would be my only chance to get an owner 2998, if not I've made an expensive mistake.
If everything is OK with the watch I'll need to find original alpha hands and try to find a matching dial. Hope that someone on this forum can help me with that.
Since I'm new to the pre-moon Speedmasters can anyone, more experienced in these chronographs, give his honest opinion about this 2998.
The watch has just left Heathrow and is flying home.

 

What's the case back ref no?

 

My understand is that 105.002-62 movement numbers south of 20000xxx should have alpha hands. Therefore, all the baton hands are wrong, ( the chrono is from the later 145.022). The dial appears to be from a later 105.003 Ed White. Finding the correct 2998 dial and even the hands is an expensive undertaking.


Good luck!

Edit. Sorry. Disregard the 105.002 mention as this is a 62. Still should have alpha hands of course.

 

And can you show the movement photo?

 

Where and how much?

Could clean up nicely, but as gemini4 says, hard (takes time, patience and luck!) and not cheap, but it could be a fun adventure.

 

@Davidt3449 According to the Auction House it's 2998-62. But they didn't photograph it.

 

No movement photo, just a movement number. It's from Fellow's auction house. I've bought other watches from them and they are usually correct, but you can never be certain with a watch bought at auction.

 

The good news is that you do have other, less expensive, options.

Vintage 2998 hands are in short supply but replacement 2998 hands are available. Here's a current listing and they are probably cheaper at Ofrei (USA) or Cousins (UK)

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=131573094975&globalID=EBAY-USPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

Regarding the dial, there are quite a few later model 2998 (61,62, 105.002) floating around with a 105.003 dial. I own one myself. No doubt many original dials were changed to the TT version during a early service. A service dial is an option of course. The better way, IMO, is to leave the TT dial alone. Except for the TTs, the 2998 and 105.003 dials are nearly identical.

 

Thanks. Fellow's auction @oddboy. The price was the same as for a running 2998-62 from speedmaster101's price guide. I've would have gotten it much cheaper if it wasn't for that pesky telephone bidder.
Although I have a feeling they are going to change very soon, hence my gamble.

 

I was thinking in the same lines @Gemini4 , if I come across a OK 2998 dial, I'll definitely buy it, but I'm fine with the dial that's on the watch. It looks nice and clean with a very nice yellow lume on the markers.
For the time being I'll be keeping the hands, hopefully a vintage pair will turn up somewhere. If not maybe I'll try to find hands from the new omega speedmaster moonwatch numbered edition, they have the triangle lume and look the right size. Not sure if they fit.

 

If you are referring to the FOIS, First Omega in Space, I believe the FOIS has a slightly smaller dial and the hands are shorter than 2998 hands.

 

I absolutely agree with your attraction and understanding that this watch was a private watch, I too love a bit of grime.

Nothing like a thick coating of human detritus to make me look twice.

This watch looks well used, well worn, and as has been said, possibly serviced, possibly by Omega.

The dial is considerably more common that a 2998 dial. Without a dial, this is the heart of the value.

While this watch is bang on the price for a running 2998-62 - IT HAS THE WRONG DIAL - Now you may be right, in that prices are rising faster than we can all track them. The 003 dial has some value, so if you find a 2998 dial then that will offset the cost. In my opinion, you paid above market - BUT - there are no others, so I cant actually say you were wrong to do so - in fact I think you were right to "over pay" because that is the only way to get one. If that sounds like I am calling both sides of the argument, I am.

The fact is, you got it, no one else did. Thats what counts.

The hands are old, but wrong of course. New service hands can be sourced, and aged. They still will be recognized buy they will look good.

The rest of the watch is a little tired - but will clean up. I wouldn't polish but that is up to you. The bezel is really worn, and an indication of how much it has been worn.

That dial may well turn out to be very attractive - the photo makes me think it might be a nice colour.

Very interested to see proper photos.

 

@Gemini4 Can't keep up with all the new Speedmaster, but we're definitely talking about the same watch. There goes my master plan.

 

I've been looking for a -62 myself. I was a bit confused about the serial ranges when looking at speedmaster101 an MWO. They offer different ranges.


Speedmaster101 says : 19,583,xxx – 19,834,xxx
MWO says: 18,419,xxx -- 19,584,xxx (and as spacefruit mentions, MWO lumps the -6, -61, and -62 into one reference)

OP's looks to fit in both ranges, but there's quite a spread.

 

Thanks @Spacefruit. I must admit that speedmaster101 helped me a lot with my decision.

I also deducted the value of the bracelet from the price guide(head only), but I think I still overpaid a little. We'll know soon enough, Watches of Knightsbridge auction is in 3 days, they've been a pretty good indicator for prices for scarce watches. They are also the first auction after the summer downtime that have a 2998.

For now I'll probably keep it as is and definitely no polishing. Since I was also looking for a 105.003 I don't mind the dial and the hands at all.

Hopefully I should have the watch in about a week so expect nice macro photographs.

 

I am a total novice and likely way out of line, but can this watch really be called a 2998?
Dial wrong, minute and hour hands wrong, chrono hand wrong, crown wrong. Seems like that's a lot
wrong. The movement is presumably right. The bezel may or not be the original and is in not great shape, and the case to me seems in poor shape. Isn't the main resaon a 2998 is so unique because of its unique hands and dial?

I have nothing against grime, but just not getting this one.

 

hmmm....., will list a 003 with 002/2998 dial this week...... buy it and make 2 correct watches and sell one again..... kind regards. achim

 

It is a fair point.

However I think we have to wait on full movement number, and sight of the inside of the case back.

If the case reference is 2998-62 and the movement number is in accepted ranges, then I would call it a 2998-62, with service dial and hands.

If the movement number is not right, then its an assembly.

As we cannot get confirmation from the Archives for this reference then we have to go with "weight of evidence" from other observed 2998-62's - and at the same time making a judgement as to if they are original or not!

 

I did research and write my site before MWO published - however my "research" is that of an enthusiastic amateur and based on observations of watches in my collection and the public domain. MWO have I believe full access to factory records and so I will always bow to their research. In the case of the 2998-6/61/62 serials, my observations seem to hold water so I leave them.

One thing to always be remembered, is that any observation (made by anyone) has to take into account the originality of the watch, and that is almost impossible to verify 100%.

 

You're absolutely right @Dgercp. Most of the straight lug cases, except for the prefect examples that are selling above 20K, look like mine or have been over polished. The damage on the case and the bezel look similar, so it's one of the rare 2998 that (probably) has the bezel that came with the watch. Also the bracelet is spot on for 2998.
The dials of the late 2998/002 are almost identical to the 003 except for the two Ts.
As I said It's a big gamble and I'll find out soon enough if I bought an expensive bracelet or a honest 2998. That's really the only option that I was left with, since there are no good 2998 around.There was only one good 2998 below 20K on ebay, that I think was bought by @Spacefruit ,and was in the US.
http://speedmaster101.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2015-07-21-015.jpg