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maxbelg
·Due to an unexpected opportunity to buy another grail watch I’m going to let this Speedy go. I discussed it and its provenance in a lot of detail in this thread:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/upgrade-or-downgrade-of-my-105-012-65.121008/
EDIT: After some questions I've complied a list at the bottom of this thread listing what the package contains.
This is a "real" moonwatch as discussed here 👍:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-actual-real-moonwatch-references.121809/
On this pic outside the scratches on the bezel look worse than in real life:
Since posting in that thread, a couple of things have changed: First of all I had the watch serviced and here’s the link to the service:
https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/library?action=show_photos&wat_id=4883&tk_id=561287166
Then just when I got it back, some lume fell out of the hands and got into the movement, blocking the chrono-runner….! 🙁 So back it went for re-luming of the hands:
https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/library?action=show_photos&wat_id=5078&tk_id=342589797
Of course there’s a transferrable warranty on the service for almost a year still. I also hunted down a 1506/16 bracelet from 1/66 for this watch and got it here:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...inks-flat-links-bracelet.123922/#post-1669722
Unfortunately it was way to short so I hunted down some extra links and now it will fit up to 21cm!I also got some other straps and a nice vintage Omega buckle as seen on the pics. I also obtained the correct vintage red box and papers dating from the appropriate time. The original insurance papers from 1966 are what really makes it a full set though. I put all of that into a large Omega Moonwatch box which I modded by taking all the internals out. The pics were mostly made today but not the ones showing the movement.
What I like:
The provenance, the fact that it is now 100% correct with every single part correct for a 105.012-65 as it left the factory. It’s an honest watch and there’s a high chance that it’s unpolished. It shows normal patina taking the age into account. I also like the fact that it has now been freshly serviced and is running perfectly. The watchmaker in the UK, Christian, commented that he had not had a 321 in his workshop in better shape! I had him swap the pushers for vintage pushers from another 105.012-65 because they were even better, but the original pushers are fine and included in the sale. The original crown was a later service crown, which is why I had it exchanged it for the correct flat-foot crown but is also included. I love the correct 1506 bracelet from 1966 and super rare correct and original number 16 endlinks. The bracelet is not NOS and its Patina fits the patina of the watch very well, I think. I love the original papers. The guarantee booklet doesn’t have a place to note movement number or watch details, so fits the original insurance papers well. Of course the Omega Extract of the Archives is included. This 105.012-65 was made 2months prior to Neil Armstrongs 105.012-65!
What some might not like:
The fact that the hands have now been re-lumed (I've added some pics of the lume at the bottom). Christian did an amazing job, matching the colour perfectly. Furthermore it can hardly be argued that it wasn’t very necessary as some lume fell out and blocked the chrono-runner! Some might object to the added box and papers and think it isn’t really a „full-set“ but I think it’s legitimate as I have the original insurance papers. It’s not NOS and not in a „collector“ condition, but the price reflects this.
So, the million dollar question is what to ask for this watch? From Speedmaster 101:
„Fair – Often the quality of a well used watch, one that has lived a useful life. It might be damaged or missing some service parts, movement needing work. This category can sometimes be improved with sympathetic work and service. It will remain fair if after service it still shows a damaged bezel, a dial with damage or missing, or discoloured plots, and a case with missing lines or heavy damage.
Good – Complete with correct parts. it is likely the lowest condition most collectors or owners are happy with. The case and dial and bezel should be without significant damage, though there may be some wear or light marks on case or bezel. The plots are an attractive colour not green or missing. Some minor plot damage or issues are acceptable. The bezel may have several marks but no major damage.“
Speedmaster 101 gives a head only price of USD 14000 (11740 Euro) for a good condition 105.012-65 and for fair USD 7000 or (5869 Euro).
I believe this 105.012-65 is at least good for the following reasons:
-Case shows normal wear and might actually be un-polished
-Case Back shows wear but is original and correct
-Bezel correct and faded with scratches but overall I’d still say good.
-All correct parts, including pushers, crown and bezel
-Dial is in great shape with original lume
-Original crystal in good shape
-Freshly serviced with one of the best condition 321 movements around
In addition it now sports a 1506/16 bracelet which cost me 2400 Euro ( USD 2860) with the extra links.
What I paid for the rest in Euro:
-615 for the Service and re-luming of the hands
-400 for the extra pushers (old ones included)
-400 for the flat foot crown (old crown included)
-400 for the box and booklets
-280 for the 2 x Forstner bracelets which are both next to new
-380 for the vintage JB Champion
This brings us (if we consider the condition as good) to a total of Euro 16615 (USD 19817) excluding some straps and the big Omega box or the fact that it has its original insurance papers…..!
However, I realise that I should accept a loss on the extras and that the Speedy prices have softened a little bit, so I’m putting it up for sale for 14000, 13500, 1300, 12500, 12000, 11500 and now Withdrawn! for the entire package. As I’ve found a new grail, I’m not interested in any trades, but offers are welcome. Shipping will be extra and the type of shipping is up to the buyer.
As a private individual I can’t guarantee the watch and won’t take it back unless grossly misrepresented. The watch does still have almost 12 months of guarantee left from the watchmaker which is transferrable to the new owner. I’ve sold quite a few watches here and on the German Uhrforum and have 100% positive feedback everywhere.
Here's my feedback here on this forum:
https://omegaforums.net/search/15009804/?q=maxbelg&o=date&c[title_only]=1&c[node]=10
Questions are welcome!
Added pics of lume after UV exposure, after a few seconds and after a few minutes showing that the relumed hands glow a bit longer than the indexes.
List of what the "Package" contains:
Omega 105.012-65
Omega 1506 Bracelet and 16 End-Links
JB Vintage Bracelet
Forstner Flatlink Bracelet
Forstner Komfit Bracelet
Pahawi Case Opener
2 x Extra Vintage 105.012 pushers
1 x Vintage Omega Crown (Not Flat Foot)
1 x Vintage Omega Buckle and unused Leather strap (Geckota Horween)
2 x NASA style Straps
1 x Omega Strap Changing Tool
1 x Omega Loupe
1 x Omega Paper Weight
1 x Modified Large Omega Box
1 x 1501 Red Box Vintage with insert
1 x Vintage Omega Hang-Tag
1 x Red Plastic Omega Guarantee Holder
1 x Vintage You and Your Omega booklet (undated but before 1968)
1 x Viintage Omega Gauarnee Booklet from 1966
1 x Swiss Timekeepers Card 1965/1966
1 x Omega Chronographen Instruction Booklet German from 1965-4
1 x Extract from the Archives
1 x Envelope containing all original Insurance Papers from the initial sale 17/6/1966
1 x Warranty, transferrable to new owner
Here's a last pic comparing my 105.012-65 (before the hands were re-lumed) to that of Armstrongs which was produced 2 months later. Mine's on the left in case you can't tell..😉
https://omegaforums.net/threads/upgrade-or-downgrade-of-my-105-012-65.121008/
EDIT: After some questions I've complied a list at the bottom of this thread listing what the package contains.
This is a "real" moonwatch as discussed here 👍:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-actual-real-moonwatch-references.121809/
On this pic outside the scratches on the bezel look worse than in real life:
Since posting in that thread, a couple of things have changed: First of all I had the watch serviced and here’s the link to the service:
https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/library?action=show_photos&wat_id=4883&tk_id=561287166
Then just when I got it back, some lume fell out of the hands and got into the movement, blocking the chrono-runner….! 🙁 So back it went for re-luming of the hands:
https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/library?action=show_photos&wat_id=5078&tk_id=342589797
Of course there’s a transferrable warranty on the service for almost a year still. I also hunted down a 1506/16 bracelet from 1/66 for this watch and got it here:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...inks-flat-links-bracelet.123922/#post-1669722
Unfortunately it was way to short so I hunted down some extra links and now it will fit up to 21cm!I also got some other straps and a nice vintage Omega buckle as seen on the pics. I also obtained the correct vintage red box and papers dating from the appropriate time. The original insurance papers from 1966 are what really makes it a full set though. I put all of that into a large Omega Moonwatch box which I modded by taking all the internals out. The pics were mostly made today but not the ones showing the movement.
What I like:
The provenance, the fact that it is now 100% correct with every single part correct for a 105.012-65 as it left the factory. It’s an honest watch and there’s a high chance that it’s unpolished. It shows normal patina taking the age into account. I also like the fact that it has now been freshly serviced and is running perfectly. The watchmaker in the UK, Christian, commented that he had not had a 321 in his workshop in better shape! I had him swap the pushers for vintage pushers from another 105.012-65 because they were even better, but the original pushers are fine and included in the sale. The original crown was a later service crown, which is why I had it exchanged it for the correct flat-foot crown but is also included. I love the correct 1506 bracelet from 1966 and super rare correct and original number 16 endlinks. The bracelet is not NOS and its Patina fits the patina of the watch very well, I think. I love the original papers. The guarantee booklet doesn’t have a place to note movement number or watch details, so fits the original insurance papers well. Of course the Omega Extract of the Archives is included. This 105.012-65 was made 2months prior to Neil Armstrongs 105.012-65!
What some might not like:
The fact that the hands have now been re-lumed (I've added some pics of the lume at the bottom). Christian did an amazing job, matching the colour perfectly. Furthermore it can hardly be argued that it wasn’t very necessary as some lume fell out and blocked the chrono-runner! Some might object to the added box and papers and think it isn’t really a „full-set“ but I think it’s legitimate as I have the original insurance papers. It’s not NOS and not in a „collector“ condition, but the price reflects this.
So, the million dollar question is what to ask for this watch? From Speedmaster 101:
„Fair – Often the quality of a well used watch, one that has lived a useful life. It might be damaged or missing some service parts, movement needing work. This category can sometimes be improved with sympathetic work and service. It will remain fair if after service it still shows a damaged bezel, a dial with damage or missing, or discoloured plots, and a case with missing lines or heavy damage.
Good – Complete with correct parts. it is likely the lowest condition most collectors or owners are happy with. The case and dial and bezel should be without significant damage, though there may be some wear or light marks on case or bezel. The plots are an attractive colour not green or missing. Some minor plot damage or issues are acceptable. The bezel may have several marks but no major damage.“
Speedmaster 101 gives a head only price of USD 14000 (11740 Euro) for a good condition 105.012-65 and for fair USD 7000 or (5869 Euro).
I believe this 105.012-65 is at least good for the following reasons:
-Case shows normal wear and might actually be un-polished
-Case Back shows wear but is original and correct
-Bezel correct and faded with scratches but overall I’d still say good.
-All correct parts, including pushers, crown and bezel
-Dial is in great shape with original lume
-Original crystal in good shape
-Freshly serviced with one of the best condition 321 movements around
In addition it now sports a 1506/16 bracelet which cost me 2400 Euro ( USD 2860) with the extra links.
What I paid for the rest in Euro:
-615 for the Service and re-luming of the hands
-400 for the extra pushers (old ones included)
-400 for the flat foot crown (old crown included)
-400 for the box and booklets
-280 for the 2 x Forstner bracelets which are both next to new
-380 for the vintage JB Champion
This brings us (if we consider the condition as good) to a total of Euro 16615 (USD 19817) excluding some straps and the big Omega box or the fact that it has its original insurance papers…..!
However, I realise that I should accept a loss on the extras and that the Speedy prices have softened a little bit, so I’m putting it up for sale for 14000, 13500, 1300, 12500, 12000, 11500 and now Withdrawn! for the entire package. As I’ve found a new grail, I’m not interested in any trades, but offers are welcome. Shipping will be extra and the type of shipping is up to the buyer.
As a private individual I can’t guarantee the watch and won’t take it back unless grossly misrepresented. The watch does still have almost 12 months of guarantee left from the watchmaker which is transferrable to the new owner. I’ve sold quite a few watches here and on the German Uhrforum and have 100% positive feedback everywhere.
Here's my feedback here on this forum:
https://omegaforums.net/search/15009804/?q=maxbelg&o=date&c[title_only]=1&c[node]=10
Questions are welcome!
Added pics of lume after UV exposure, after a few seconds and after a few minutes showing that the relumed hands glow a bit longer than the indexes.
List of what the "Package" contains:
Omega 105.012-65
Omega 1506 Bracelet and 16 End-Links
JB Vintage Bracelet
Forstner Flatlink Bracelet
Forstner Komfit Bracelet
Pahawi Case Opener
2 x Extra Vintage 105.012 pushers
1 x Vintage Omega Crown (Not Flat Foot)
1 x Vintage Omega Buckle and unused Leather strap (Geckota Horween)
2 x NASA style Straps
1 x Omega Strap Changing Tool
1 x Omega Loupe
1 x Omega Paper Weight
1 x Modified Large Omega Box
1 x 1501 Red Box Vintage with insert
1 x Vintage Omega Hang-Tag
1 x Red Plastic Omega Guarantee Holder
1 x Vintage You and Your Omega booklet (undated but before 1968)
1 x Viintage Omega Gauarnee Booklet from 1966
1 x Swiss Timekeepers Card 1965/1966
1 x Omega Chronographen Instruction Booklet German from 1965-4
1 x Extract from the Archives
1 x Envelope containing all original Insurance Papers from the initial sale 17/6/1966
1 x Warranty, transferrable to new owner
Here's a last pic comparing my 105.012-65 (before the hands were re-lumed) to that of Armstrongs which was produced 2 months later. Mine's on the left in case you can't tell..😉
Edited:
