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For fans of Cycling (Yay!) Lance Armstrong (Boo!) and Robin Williams (Yay!)....

  1. Martin_J_N Jul 12, 2019

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    The question I have to pose is this;

    By knowingly involving himself in a process that was illegal did Armstrong gain financially from his victories and, did Armstrong deprive others from gaining a financial reward / recognition because of his cheating?

    My issue with cheating is that it doesn't just affect the cheater, others would have won their events had the cheat not cheated, others would have stood on podiums and basked in their moment of glory, others would have been offered the deals that ended up going to the cheat, others would have had the opportunity to improve their lot in life but that was taken from them by the cheat.

    So you can strip a cheat of their titles, you can get some financial penalty imposed but you cannot rewind time and give the victims of cheating their moment in the spotlight and the rewards that that brings.

    The penalties for cheating are small compared to what can be gained, when you step onto the road of cheating you have to understand what is going to happen if you get caught, and the authorities must implement the strongest possible punishments to anyone caught cheating.
     
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  2. blufinz52 Hears dead people, not watch rotors. Jul 12, 2019

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    I'm not defending cheating (I know you're not implying that I am), but I just can't get worked up about it. A fair majority of cyclists were also cheating and if it wasn't Armstrong wearing the yellow jersey, it would have most likely been another cheater. Cynical...absolutely.

    Lying under oath is a different matter and there should be a price to pay for that.
     
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  3. michael22 Jul 12, 2019

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    It seems not to be good enough: why is he being paid to do videos? Without his titles, what is he?

    "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton is a good read. One detail I shall never forget: in the early days at least, many weren't doping. The dopers referred to themselves as professionals. "Are you being professional?" "Yes."
    Professionals do what it takes to win, & that's what they were doing. So twisted.
     
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  4. Martin_J_N Jul 12, 2019

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    You're right I am not implying anything, just making my point about cheats. Maybe I should explain why;

    Once upon a time, a long, long, long, time ago when I was but a strapping youth, a close friend was really good at athletics, they ended up in a national team at a big but not major championships. In their event (400m) they came 4th which wasn't bad, their team mate came 3rd and ended up on the podium, got their medal and auto entry for the next big championships and a stepping stone into the world of sponsorship / rewards / etc etc. No issues from my friend all good as they had got a pb and was very happy.

    However, 25+ years later the athletes who came 1st and 2nd were found to have been using performance enhancing drugs (they came from behind the wall), as a result they were disqualified and stripped of their medals. My friend now got a silver, their team mate upgraded to gold.

    Fantastic. Well yes and no. Yes because they got the medal and the record book updated, but no because they missed out on all the benefits of getting on that podium, their team mate had a good career and left the sport very well off.

    My friend never had another chance to run for a national team, they gave up the sport a few years later and went off to get a job and have a normal life, they are not bitter but did say when we were having a beer after they had been awarded the medal, I wonder where I'd be if.....

    I have no time for cheats, when I hear them protesting their innocence in the media I just want to throw something at them, they know what they are doing and they know that they are hurting others, they shouldn't be allowed to get anywhere near their sport or any other sport again, whether as a competitor, analyst or pundit.

    Just my view.
     
  5. MRC Jul 12, 2019

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    OK, here's a confession: I have raced a sailboat that did not comply with the regulations. It was a One Design and no modifications were permitted to the keel but the first owner had ripped it off on a sandbank and so the fixing to the hull needed to be repaired and was thereby strengthened.

    Should we (I was part-owner) have been banned for that?

    Second count on that boat was that the mainsheet track bent visibly under high load, and for the sake of safety we decided to replace it with a bigger one. We knew it was illegal but as our crew were reluctant competitors at best (spouses and casuals) we went for their peace of mind and replaced it.

    Should we have been banned for that?

    In all sports?

    At every level?

    Worldwide?

    Finding that too expensive I went back to racing cars. Basic car had next to no regulations (one seat, open wheels), but it was all about the engine. I paid for an engine-builder of good repute to prepare it. Did he cheat a little? I seriously doubt it, but his engines were acknowledged as the top line. My car was no faster on the straights than all but the very few who admitted running illegal fuel to get more power. About 2bhp more, maybe 3 on a good day.

    Did we call them out? No.

    Should we have done?


    Now, having acknowleged cheating under Royal Yachting Association rules how would they transmit a ban on me to the Royal Automobile Club MotorSport Association? Or to the Sports Car Club of America, or, indeed, anyone? Suppose I took up table-tennis?
     
  6. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 12, 2019

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    Some sports have tougher standards than others.

    In golf, if you sign a scorecard that is incorrect or use improper equipment, you are disqualified for that tournament. Period. Doesn't matter if you intended to cheat or not.

    Baseball owners tolerated widespread steroid use for years knowing that the increased home run and other outlying hitting statistics put fans in the seats. Once discovered, the owners covered up their complicity and left the players hanging in the wind.

    What about "diving" in soccer games? Seen enough of that over the years, too. So long as the league allow it, players will do it, cheating or not.

    Too much money at stake in these sports to expect any morality.
    gatorcpa
     
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