Forums Latest Auctions Members

For fans of Cycling (Yay!) Lance Armstrong (Boo!) and Robin Williams (Yay!)....

  1. yinzerniner

    yinzerniner Jul 11, 2019

    Posts
    1,815
    Likes
    1,323
    Amazing story on the generosity of Robin Williams during the TdF.

    Apparently Mork was a huge watch head, and went above and beyond in showing his appreciation for the athletes of the sport he loved.

     
  2. M'Bob

    M'Bob Jul 11, 2019

    Posts
    2,682
    Likes
    5,262
    Lance probably didn't do anything that different from any other professional cyclist. His biggest offense was his lack of contrition and personal responsibility when caught red-handed.
     
    Kmart, blufinz52, Wetworks and 2 others like this.
  3. CJpickup57

    CJpickup57 Jul 11, 2019

    Posts
    478
    Likes
    957
    Watch talk starts at 16:36 by the way.
     
  4. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    14,877
    Likes
    29,863
    He is a cheat and a liar, and IMO should be in jail for fraud. The fact that others were doing the same doesn't excuse any of it.
     
  5. Tony C.

    Tony C. Ωf Jury member Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    4,427
    Likes
    11,060
    I'm in basic agreement with this, and his particular type of fraud was a (sports) version of White Collar crime. If an athlete can make millions by cheating, and the risks are only humiliation and being banned from the sport, there simply isn't sufficient moral hazard. Bank CEOs are a more pungent example of the same problem, as their actions greatly impact countless millions of ordinary people, yet they are rarely held accountable.
     
    Togri v. 2.0, kidkimura and M'Bob like this.
  6. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    9,931
    Likes
    21,776
    Won’t even click on the video to hear him breath let alone talk :thumbsdown:
     
    michael22 likes this.
  7. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    14,877
    Likes
    29,863
    IMO giving this guy any time in any media is wrong...I also didn't watch it. Not having a go at the OP, but the people who produced the video.

    The saddest part of actions like his is the what Bob said - it paints everyone as a cheater no matter what. As a former athlete and someone who worked on doping control measures in my sport when the first world anti-doping code came out, it's disheartening to see someone like this fraud get air time. Unfortunately the IOC and many sport federations seem to want to turn a blind eye to all this stuff, and only do the minimum possible. WADA is a mere shadow of what it once was, and shows no signs of turning around any time soon...
     
  8. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    9,428
    Likes
    9,031
    This is one of those situations where everyone is right.

    Lance is right in that everyone was doping back then (probably still are).

    Everyone else is right in that this is no excuse.

    Which is why not only would I not click on the video, I wouldn’t waste my time watching the Tour de France or any other bicycle race.

    Except this one. Warning, Not Safe For Work!:


    gatorcpa
     
  9. CJpickup57

    CJpickup57 Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    478
    Likes
    957
    I watched for a story about Robin Williams. After the story was over I was done with it. I love Robin Williams and despise Lance. I was quite sad the day the news broke about Robin’s untimely death.
     
  10. perks713

    perks713 Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    290
    Likes
    511
    Cheating: not cool, respect gone.
    Fraud: Jail time and/or court imposed fines - once settled, I can at least say the debt is paid.
    Spending years destroying the personal lives and reputations of anyone who had the "courage" to stand up to Armstrong and try to tell the world about his actions: No Redemption.
     
    michael22 and Archer like this.
  11. M'Bob

    M'Bob Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    2,682
    Likes
    5,262
    I knew people years ago who knew Lance well, before the Tour wins, and they told me his cancer was only mildly successful at dampening his pathological arrogance.

    Let's make no mistake about it: Lance is a total dick, and shows no signs at present of the introspection required for any significant personality evolution.

    But, let's not delude ourselves into assessing high-level sports for anything other than what they are: big business, and often dirty business.
     
  12. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    14,877
    Likes
    29,863
    Again this is the cynical view that the constant cheating perpetuates. Yes there are sports that are certainly not much more than big business, but there are also sports where this certainly isn’t the case. Using very broad brushes to paint it all as being “the same” is just not on.
     
  13. M'Bob

    M'Bob Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    2,682
    Likes
    5,262
    Constant cheating? By whom? In one sport, or many? By one person in your designated cheater sport, or many? Are you certain it's constant, and not intermittent? Good thing you're not partial to "broad brushes" yourself.
     
    Cad290 likes this.
  14. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    14,877
    Likes
    29,863
    The cheating that happens across all sports, and the lack of action to combat it, and tacit acceptance that is quite common these days.
     
  15. Martin_J_N

    Martin_J_N Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    438
    Likes
    1,024
    Why do athletes (athlete = anyone involved in any sport) cheat? My belief is that for some the rewards that are offered are too great to resist, an average athlete in their chosen sport can reap huge rewards if they can raise their game a notch or two, for most this means upping the training, working harder, pushing themselves more. But, for others it means going down the unethical route, hoping that they never get caught.

    Many cheats are caught but not necessarily at the time, cheats rob clean athletes of their moment of glory, the clean athlete may get a medal, or a record assigned after the cheat has been caught but they didn't get to stand on the podium, or hear their national anthem, they didn't get the rewards that their effort deserved.

    A cheat once caught should be banned for life, not a couple of years, but a straight ban never allowed to participate in sport ever again.

    Sorry for the rant, but it's just how I feel.
     
  16. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    14,877
    Likes
    29,863
    I could not agree more. The slap on the wrist they get these days is simply not enough.
     
  17. M'Bob

    M'Bob Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    2,682
    Likes
    5,262
    This is the cynical view that the constant cheating perpetuates.
     
  18. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    14,877
    Likes
    29,863
    Are you denying it happens then?
     
  19. blufinz52

    blufinz52 Hears dead people, not watch rotors. Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    1,443
    Likes
    2,096
    The United States incarcerates more of its citizens, per capita, than any nation in the world. The last thing we need is to jail someone for taking a competitive advantage in cycling, or any sport, through PEDs and doping. We'd have to build more jails. Armstrong was stripped of his TDF titles, which for me is good enough.
     
    Cad290 and M'Bob like this.
  20. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 12, 2019

    Posts
    14,877
    Likes
    29,863
    That's not what I said he should be jailed for. The doping violations should certainly result in him losing his titles, and never being able to participate in sport again in any capacity, but fraud and lying under oath are offences that should have a stronger penalty.