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Fitting a MkII dial & (861) movement into a MkI case

john_coburg
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Hello there,
I would like to try to create (for myself!) a tritium Racing Dial Speedmaster (MkI) on the cheap - and given the plethora of Racing Dial MkIIs knocking around, it would seem to be a good idea to try to fit one into a Mk I case. Is that easily done? Is it easier to take the dial and fit it to the movement in a Mk I case? Or easier to take the dial and movement and fit that in an empty MkI case? Any difference? Or will it require all sorts of faffing about that would effectively prohibit this?
Thank you vm for any thoughts.
John
 
ext1
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What do you mean by "Mk 1" ? I assume you're talking about just the regular speedy pro..
The speedy pro and MK2 use both 861 so the dials and case will be interchangeable.
 
pascs
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There are several differences between the two.
MkII's normally have a flat dial and standard Speedmaster dials are not flat
The two cases and movements often have different lengths of pins for the pushers, so no guarantee that fitting one into the other will work, without some modification.
The movement holders are obviously different for the two types of cases, and also the method of fixing the movement to the case. But just using the correct movement holder for the case should be fine.

Your best bet would be to buy a good normal Speedmaster and fit it with the dial and hands from a MkII Racing. The movement may sit slightly further back from the front of the case since the MkII dial is flat and the normal Speedmasters are normally curved. I'm not sure how much the difference is but I've seen MkII dials fitted to standard Speedmaster cases so I'm assuming they fit.
 
Badwolf
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I think it would be better to fit the racing dial that was designed for the speedy pro, they come up from time to time on eBay. Not cheap but neither are your other ideas.
 
john_coburg
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Thank you all. Yes, by 'Mk I' I meant a regular Speedy Pro.
Re. the relative pricing: Speedy Pro (£3-4k) plus Pro Racing dial (£2-3k? total guess - could be more!) = £5-7k all-in, plus some waiting time for the Pro dial.
Meanwhile, a Mk II (£2-3k), plus a Speedy Pro case and whatnot (£1-1.5k?) = c. £3-4.5k all-in, without any wait!
I can take off a few quid for the spares i'd have to sell in each case.
Question is which method is easiest/possible. it feels 'do-able' to me, but i'd like to get a better idea of the pitfalls before i try it.
thank you.
 
Archer
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pascs pascs
There are several differences between the two.
MkII's normally have a flat dial and standard Speedmaster dials are not flat
The two cases and movements often have different lengths of pins for the pushers, so no guarantee that fitting one into the other will work, without some modification.
The movement holders are obviously different for the two types of cases, and also the method of fixing the movement to the case. But just using the correct movement holder for the case should be fine.

Your best bet would be to buy a good normal Speedmaster and fit it with the dial and hands from a MkII Racing. The movement may sit slightly further back from the front of the case since the MkII dial is flat and the normal Speedmasters are normally curved. I'm not sure how much the difference is but I've seen MkII dials fitted to standard Speedmaster cases so I'm assuming they fit.

I've not tried this myself, but the curved v flat dial is the kicker. The curved dial from the Speedy Pro allows the movement to be deeper into the case than the flat dial will, so the flat dial will effectively move the movement back in the case - how much is unclear. This could cause issues with stem alignment (not coming out of the middle of the case tube), and it may also mean that the movement and inner anti-magnetic cover may not fit well in the case.

These things are rarely as simple as people believe them to be...fractions of a mm matter...
 
watchlovr
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I owned either a pro dial in a mk2 case or a mk2 dial in a pro case, I can’t remember which it was.
I think I got it from @flame
Now gone.
Neil can you remember?
 
simonsays
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Curved dial? Can you illuminate me, do you mean the slope on the front?
 
wagudc
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simonsays simonsays
Curved dial? Can you illuminate me, do you mean the slope on the front?

Perhaps domed is a better term.
 
Sherbie
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Pretty sure Spacefruit has also done this - i pulled this from a Time4apint podcast ( hope Chris and William wont mind!)

98B0C4AF-A8C3-4C15-9BC6-F94916DA6BAD.png
 
watchlovr
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watchlovr watchlovr
I owned either a pro dial in a mk2 case or a mk2 dial in a pro case, I can’t remember which it was.
I think I got it from @flame
Now gone.
Neil can you remember?
Update.
Neil tells me both are possible, for a cal 861 movement/dial
 
Archer
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watchlovr watchlovr
Update.
Neil tells me both are possible, for a cal 861 movement/dial

Could be. I would want to verify that the stem comes out centerd in the case tube...
 
Flatfoot
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I believe finding a tritium racing dial will be rather expensive as you suggest and agree it may take a while to get one.

I did something similar, but with a modern superluminova JR service dial and handset. The service dial and handset was achievable to me from a cost standpoint, and IIRC, well less than $1000 USD all in.

I kept all changes using 861 speedy Pro compatible parts for ease now and in the future. I did not want to be clipping dial feet or take any other steps that would not be reversible. From my viewpoint, all parts had to be “ Remove and replace” compatible.

I bought a nice 145.022-69 with a nice original dial and handset - both dial and hands which I removed and placed in my dads .022-69. Those donor tritium parts replaced a SL service dial and handset which were installed on my dads watch at an Omega Service around the turn of this century.

so, now, the donor watch case and movement could have used those same SL service dial and hands, which were removed from my dad’s watch. However, I was not a fan of their aesthetic look. So instead, I bought a Japan Racing dial and handset as service parts. My local watchmaker then installed the JR parts for a modest cost in the donor watch case.

This SL replacement may “scratch the itch” and might be an interim step for you until your sought-after tritium dial finds its way to you?

Result Seen below
817F30E8-8C2D-4E54-8E52-5947D58FE090.jpeg
 
john_coburg
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I think I have found a way of getting the Mk II dial and movement into an empty 145 022 74 case, but i'm left without the case clamps, which i'll need, as i suspect they are unique to the 145 022 (74?) case. Where is a good place to source these - i'm assuming they must be pretty easy to source?
Thank you vm.
 
simonsays
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john_coburg john_coburg
I think I have found a way of getting the Mk II dial and movement into an empty 145 022 74 case, but i'm left without the case clamps, which i'll need, as i suspect they are unique to the 145 022 (74?) case. Where is a good place to source these - i'm assuming they must be pretty easy to source?
Thank you vm.
I don’t think there are case clamps. You need a movement ring and the anti magnetic dust cover and that’s it as far as I know. I don’t see that there is any significant difference to these dials, so straight swap.
 
Archer
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john_coburg john_coburg
I think I have found a way of getting the Mk II dial and movement into an empty 145 022 74 case, but i'm left without the case clamps, which i'll need, as i suspect they are unique to the 145 022 (74?) case. Where is a good place to source these - i'm assuming they must be pretty easy to source?
Thank you vm.

No clamps needed.
 
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