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First writing believed to be 40,000 years earlier than thought

GarethS
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Did anyone else catch this recent news? Almost blew my mind.

Carved ivory articles found in caves in Germany show early form of proto writing using crosses, dots & dashes.

More museum fodder I hear you saying. Thing is they have dated it to 45,000 BCE so predating the previously considered earliest forms of cunieformic tablets from the Middle East by 40,000 years! About the time H. Sapiens from Africa started mingling with the indigenous Neanderthals.
IMG_0043.webp
 
hen
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The article dont open. But is that really writing ? Looks more like decor.

Anyways the most important question to all you Speedy guys; if it indeed is writing, is is straight or curved?
 
Peemacgee
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hen hen
The article dont open. But is that really writing ? Looks more like decor.

Anyways the most important question to all you Speedy guys; if it indeed is writing, is is straight or curved?
I thought the same -but I don't think the example shown is necessarily what lead them to their conclusions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgknj7yyv2o

see if this link works
 
Waltesefalcon
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That's awfully interesting. I'm not convinced from what is shown in this article. I'd want to see their research.
 
Duracuir1
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Come on everyone! The Xs are kisses and the cow is a Hershey.

IMG_5071.webp
 
CalgaryJim
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
That's awfully interesting. I'm not convinced from what is shown in this article. I'd want to see their research.
Does this answer your question 😉

IMG_4666.webp
 
Waltesefalcon
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CalgaryJim CalgaryJim
Does this answer your question 😉

IMG_4666.webp
No, that one table that lacks context. The four paleosigns it shows are all signs that have been studied for decades. Do you have a link to the article this came from?
 
hen
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Peemacgee Peemacgee
I thought the same -but I don't think the example shown is necessarily what lead them to their conclusions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgknj7yyv2o

see if this link works
Thanks, that link worked. I still think it too much difference between the proto cuneiform tablet and the dotted adorant to call the dots writing. But still could be a ogham style alfabet. And as a mechanic this is absolutely not my field, but its fun to read and speculate.
 
Valerio
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A fascinating discovery!

40.000 years is a staggering timeframe. It’s truly humbling to think for how long humans have felt the need to leave a lasting mark of their existence.

Speaking of ancient marks and tracking time, I’ve been following the studies on Göbekli Tepe in Turkey. It dates back about 11.500 years and new research suggests it might have served as the world’s oldest solar calendar. They’ve identified 365 'V' symbols carved into the stone, used to track days, months, and celestial movements.

I couldn't help but smile thinking that while we cherish our mechanical perpetual calendars, those massive stones were the ultimate 'complication.' No gears, no oil, and a power reserve that’s lasted eleven millennia. Talk about a serious piece of engineering! 😉

For those interested in the scientific details, here is the article: Representations of calendars and time at Göbekli Tepe ...

It’s comforting to see that our obsession with timekeeping is as old as civilization itself.
 
ghce
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Duracuir1 Duracuir1
Come on everyone! The Xs are kisses and the cow is a Hershey.

IMG_5071.webp


I think we are missing the elephant in the room.
Think of the size of those T Bone Steaks!!!
 
Waltesefalcon
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CalgaryJim CalgaryJim
I was joking with the out of context charts but here's the PNAS journal article that the BBC referenced.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2520385123
It was a very interesting study, they propose that the markings are likely numeric or numero-ideograhic in purpose. Which is why they compared it to the cuneiform V, IV, and III. What is novel about this research was the use of algorithims to chart the instance of repetition vs entropy, as true writing has a higher rate of entropy. In this study they found some correlation between the rates of repition and entropy between cuneiform V and the Aurignacian symbol system. The authors do admit that calling these marks writing is a stretch:
"In sum, the sign sequences of the Swabian Aurignacian might be described as human intercommunication by means of conventional visible marks, while they certainly do not meet the criterion of writing sensu strictu."
 
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