First Universal Geneve

TasMike · Oct 20, 2020

I'm looking at a 1960 404604-3 Polerouter Geneve as an entry into Universal Geneve. The watch is priced at 895 Euros freight free. It comes with the box and papers. Unfortunately no photos of the movement - "(We have not opened the back case due to not making any damage to this near mint watch)"

Any comments gratefully received.

TasMike · Oct 21, 2020

Bit the bullet... bought the watch. Other than the barely legible numbers on the caseback I couldn't find anything about it to dissuade me. Swedish dealer with a 7 day from day of receipt return policy - refund includes shipping if it turns out not to be as described. It will cost me another 10% to get it into the country, but still happy with that price.

... now the long wait

STANDY · Oct 21, 2020

Nice looking piece, judging by the crown it was worn a bit. Needs a good clean.

@TasMike based in Tassie?

TasMike · Oct 21, 2020

STANDY
Nice looking piece, judging by the crown it was worn a bit. Needs a good clean.

One of the reasons I liked it was the grime on the lugs - means it hadn't been polished to death!

STANDY
@TasMike based in Tassie?

Yep, Lilydale, in the north-east.

yala · Oct 21, 2020

Very nice dial - to my eyes, the crown looks a bit odd. The "U" on the crown is a bit slim, but that could also just be wear and tear. Also, the buckle is a 70's buckle, not sure that this came with the watch (although - there could have been overlap if the watch is from the late 60’s?) But all in all: nice catch, wear it in great health!

TasMike · Oct 21, 2020

Thanks @yala
I also thought that the crown was at odds with the overall appearance of the watch - much more wear. It also has a different profile to the crown shown on the reference (https://universalgenevepolerouter.com/photo-galleries/referencegallery/), but in the end decided that I didn't care.

The serial of the watch points to a manufacture date of 60/61 and the purchase documentation is dated 1963, so the band (which looks unused) and buckle are undoubtedly later additions, but in keeping.

Larry S · Oct 21, 2020

It all looks good to me. Do have it serviced. Buckle looks like it belongs there.

yala · Oct 21, 2020

TasMike
Thanks @yala
I also thought that the crown was at odds with the overall appearance of the watch - much more wear. It also has a different profile to the crown shown on the reference (https://universalgenevepolerouter.com/photo-galleries/referencegallery/), but in the end decided that I didn't care.

The serial of the watch points to a manufacture date of 60/61 and the purchase documentation is dated 1963, so the band (which looks unused) and buckle are undoubtedly later additions, but in keeping.

Very nice 😀 It’s a very cool watch coming in an equally cool box 😀

Tony C. · Oct 21, 2020

TasMike
I also thought that the crown was at odds with the overall appearance of the watch

What are your thoughts on the seeming disparity between the colors of the case, indexes and dial, and that of the hands?

yala · Oct 21, 2020

Tony C.
What are your thoughts on the seeming disparity between the colors of the case, indexes and dial, and that of the hands?

Good question. I have been noticing some discoloration on gilded hands on my UG chronos (had 2 pieces where the minute hand would have a slightly different tone than the hour hand). Maybe it’s just ageing?

Tony C. · Oct 21, 2020

There is actually also a small chance that it is the other way around. I have acquired several 18k vintage watches (not UG) over the years that appeared to have yellow gold cases, yet when I gave them a light hand polish with a cloth, it was immediately clear that they were, in fact, pink gold.

TasMike · Oct 21, 2020

Tony C.
What are your thoughts on the seeming disparity between the colors of the case, indexes and dial, and that of the hands?

I wouldn't have thought to expect a colour match between case and dial as the case is gold plated and the dial painted (presumably). As for the indexes, dials and hands, they do closely match the reference shown on universalgenevepolerouter.com and the lume in the hands looks to be appropriately aged.

Larry S · Oct 21, 2020

It’s a gold capped watch, so I think some variation is to be expected over time.

yala · Oct 21, 2020

Tony C.
There is actually also a small chance that it is the other way around. I have acquired several 18k vintage watches (not UG) over the years that appeared to have yellow gold cases, yet when I gave them a light hand polish with a cloth, it was immediately clear that they were, in fact, pink gold.

The ageing of materials in wristwatches. That is a field that I would love to see explored in depth and referenced in a book or a website 😀

Tony C. · Oct 21, 2020

TasMike
I wouldn't have thought to expect a colour match between case and dial as the case is gold plated and the dial painted (presumably). As for the indexes, dials and hands, they do closely match the reference shown on universalgenevepolerouter.com and the lume in the hands looks to be appropriately aged.

I disagree. I see color matches on this reference, and would never expect that any manufacturer would have matched pink gold hands to yellow gold cases and indexes. To my mind, there are only three possibilities: either the case top is actually pink gold, but appears yellow due to aging, or the hands were originally yellow, and have degraded such that they now appear pink, or they are incorrect replacements.

TasMike · Oct 21, 2020

I'll update you when I get my hands on the watch and can have a better look at it. If it's not as described I can send it back without loss. Here is the original listing - https://zeppelinerinvest.com/produc...8-2-automatic-manufactured-1961-complete-set/

Henrique · Oct 21, 2020

Nice presentation, but I dont see the reason for presenting so many things intent to make look like mint when clearly isnt. The buckle is not original for this watch (different and later UG logo) and the crown has signs of use. If this was taken into consideration with the seller, then its fine.

jumpingsecond · Oct 21, 2020

Agree with @Tony C. and @Henrique that the watch was presented nicely but the hands and crown and case back don't jive to the dial/case. Box /strap is from a different era.

Bat Signal illuminated for @Mazoue or @CafeRacer - they'll shed more light.

Carlton-Browne · Oct 21, 2020

The main bit that concerns me is the chip on the bottom left lug - I don’t think there’s any way that can be made good or repaired.

TasMike · Oct 21, 2020

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm new to vintage watches and learning.

I wasn't naïve enough to pay a lot of attention to the dealer's spiel. I did pay attention to the photos and the price.

Things I missed:
- rose gold hands
- rose gold buckle
- chipped plating on the lug

Things I didn't miss:
- worn crown
- worn case back
- new strap
- later logo on buckle
- box from the 50s? (based on the logo), but has value in its own right

I bought it because I liked the watch (and still do) and on checking sales of similar Polerouters (which were invariably more expensive - sometimes reaching 2000 euros without box and papers) I decided that the price was fair, particularly as I could return it penalty free if the description was not accurate. We'll see how that goes when I get to hold the watch.

I'm not buying as an investment as I'm hopeless at selling. I still have every motorbike I ever owned because I can't bring myself to sell them - watches take up less space and servicing is cheaper than registration.

First Universal Geneve

TasMike

TasMike

STANDY

TasMike

yala

TasMike

Larry S

yala

Tony C.

yala

Tony C.

TasMike

Larry S

yala

Tony C.

TasMike

Henrique

jumpingsecond

Carlton-Browne

TasMike

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