Hi all!

I’ve come across what seems to be a very honest 1st owner 145.022. It belonged to the seller’s great grand father who wore it for 40 years.
He says he brought it to a watchmaker who had a lot of trouble opening it and said it had not been serviced for 40yrs but the movement was still clean and working. Crystal ha seen a lot so it’s difficult to assess the dial. There is a lot of dirt eveywhere but at least it does seem untampered...the DON bezel has some damage too...
No caseback picture as the movement ones were taken by the watchmaker who closed the watch since. Seller isn’t equipped to open it again.
Comes with its 1039 bracelet.
Any red flag I’m missing? Asked price is a little below 8k€ but there might be some room

 

One of the very first 861s. Early 1969 at a guess. My 321 -68 is on 26.551m

 

The watch looks basically legit, but the end pieces of the bracelet appear not genuine (not sure?) and the sweep second looks newer than hour and minute, so I'd think there has been a service within 40 years.

The subcounter hands look worn.

Movement doesn't look untouched to me as well.

Also, I would ask for a picture showing the watch in full reset chrono position.

 

Thanks, I’ve asked for a picture with the chrono at 0 and one of the endlinks.
What to think of the case? It should be unpolished or once at most...Does it look like it?

 

The watchmaker should know better than to open the watch with all that dirt in the seal area and on the lugs. Some of it will now be in the movement...

Watch has been serviced as the screw heads show damage.

€8k seems far too high to me but, that's just my opinion.

Cheers, Chris

 

Case looks unpolished.

 

It seems to high to me too, but it’s the asked price by someone who doesn’t really know what he has and probably guessed from a quick net search...Maybe there is room for bargain, but only if the watch is worth owning at all
What would be a good price for such a piece from what can be seen, considering the dial is in good condition (which would need to be assessed directly I guess, I don’t see how a picture could show beneath that scratched crystal)

thanks!

 

And the endlinks are apparently 516

 

Well it’s not in great nick. Even if you were generous and priced it as Sp101 good, that would only be $7k head only, (so ~€6k) the bracelet adds, what, €1k is that makes €7k total. It’s not really even at Good standard at present so factoring in a service maybe ~€6k might be nearer the mark IMO, it’s a risky purchase any higher.

 

Apparently? Well, likely.

 

Apparently because he told me so after I explained where it was etched...But I have no picture of it.

as for the condition, I’m glad I asked more knowledgeable people because I figured the all original unpolished combo with a dial that looked to me like it might be nice beneath the scratched crystal was not that bad...

 

Looks so-so. The bezel is pretty bad and the lume looks patchy.

 

IMO a crucial point is the dial. Although the crystal is scratched you can examine the lume plots. For me it looks as if quite some of the lume has come off and the remaining lume is not of a pleasing colour...
It is nice to own a transitional Speedie but not at this price for this condition.

 

Obviously having an unpolished case is really appealing, but I don´t know if that makes up for the otherwise - to put it lightly - not so perfect condition. 8 grand for a 861 Speedy seems really pricey to me, even if it has the original 1039 bracelet. Maybe ask the seller to polish the crystal with some toothpaste so you can get a better look at the dial?

 

Better examples out there for sure. Don't ask how I know

 

You mean like this one .....