Community Stories

Film Compax: A Mystery Solved

martinc
Posts
169
Likes
414
Mark020 Mark020
I'm now at 8: https://www.phillips.com/detail/228010 I have reason to believe they were produced in 300 pieces. Serials from 1.174.437 to 1.174.736.



1778661122074.webp
Batch of 300?
That makes it not much of a rare reference given the number of pieces of some other references produced by UG… 😀
 
Mark020
Posts
6,627
Likes
10,382
Indeed. Rare is less than 100 😀
 
TWP
Posts
14
Likes
17
Mark020 Mark020
I'm now at 8: https://www.phillips.com/detail/228010 I have reason to believe they were produced in 300 pieces. Serials from 1.174.437 to 1.174.736.



1778661122074.webp
I'm at 10 pieces, with the 9th discovery being mine - and it's worth noting that the beginning of serial range, to the end of the known serial range doesn't seem to suggest that all of them were Film Compax in-between - there were many other 22522 references in and around those serial ranges. I've seen talk of a very nice one being offered somewhere in the past in Italy or with an Italian collector, but I've been unable to confirm that.

but if you know of any that aren't in this list, let me know
UG-FILM-COMPAX-KNOWN-3.webp
 
TWP
Posts
14
Likes
17
Just as a follow up about the serial ranges - here's another dial variation that falls in the correct ranges for a Film - Compax, but isn't

NON-FILM-COMPAX22522-3.webp NON-FILM-COMPAX22522-2.webp NON-FILM-COMPAX22522.webp
 
Mark020
Posts
6,627
Likes
10,382
In the end they are just 37mm compaxes with another dial. UG will not be able to tell us but of the 9 I know with full serial 7 have a FC dial. My guestimate is that this was a dedicated FC batch.

The 300 should be 240.
1779726766582.webp


The 'loose' 22522 is this one: https://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=79473518 (tricompax...)

@LouS (who - for some reason - hasn't been seen here for years unfortunately) also mentions 506 here: https://omegaforums.net/threads/ug-compax-22522.68612/

And I can not share the whole - relevant - part of the excel but it goes back to low 1.173 and I know in total 45 pieces and the total production is predicted to be 1453 pieces. Hard to put a number on it but I would say I'm 80-90% confident production will have been along these lines
Edited:
 
TWP
Posts
14
Likes
17
Mark020 Mark020
In the end they are just 37mm compaxes with another dial. UG will not be able to tell us but of the 9 I know with full serial 7 have a FC dial. My guestimate is that this was a dedicated FC batch.

The 300 should be 240.
1779726766582.webp


The 'loose' 22522 is this one: https://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=79473518 (tricompax...)

@LouS (who - for some reason - hasn't been seen here for years unfortunately) also mentions 506 here: https://omegaforums.net/threads/ug-compax-22522.68612/

And I can not share the whole - relevant - part of the excel but it goes back to low 1.173 and I know in total 45 pieces and the total production is predicted to be 1453 pieces. Hard to put a number on it but I would say I'm 80-90% confident production will have been along these lines
do you happen to have any image references, or know if they line up serial wise with the ones I'm missing info on? I'd be very surprised if they made 2-300 FC dials, as it seems to have been a very small number among many other dials sharing the case, but who knows. Unless an old archive shows up one day, we'll sadly never know, but to my knowledge, ten have surfaced at least traceably on the internet. The whole right column of serials are FC dials you've found or confirmed?
 
Mark020
Posts
6,627
Likes
10,382
7/8 out of 240 is not a strange percentage of Known Survivors. I can post numbers later
 
TWP
Posts
14
Likes
17
Mark020 Mark020
7/8 out of 240 is not a strange percentage of Known Survivors. I can post numbers later
I have a theory, though it is just a theory, that the stern company ordered dials and had 22522 cases and movements with many dial options that they could offer the customer, to be assembled by their in-house watchmakers, which would explain maybe the small batch of surfaced examples spread over a few hundred serials a little randomly and none consecutively. I wonder if Patek’s historians have any information / serials / archives of stern Co sales. Might be worth an email. The catalogue from the time also makes mention of a gold variant which has never surfaced, or maybe was just never requested.
 
Mark020
Posts
6,627
Likes
10,382
No need to quote posts directly above your answer....

TWP TWP
spread over a few hundred serials a little randomly and none consecutively.
I don't agree with you on this. They are not that random.

1779775274889.webp
 
TWP
Posts
14
Likes
17
Nice, thanks for these. Do you know if any of the serials you have there correlate with the ones I’m missing?
 
Mark020
Posts
6,627
Likes
10,382
Don’t think so
 
TWP
Posts
14
Likes
17
And there's no imagery or you have some imagery of the examples in your list?
 
TWP
Posts
14
Likes
17
Ok? Slightly odd comment, I thought this was all enthusiasts sharing knowledge positively. What have I not used that you feel I should have? I’ve used only information that I have been able to verify with imagery, and shared opinions / facts that are widely circulated - I’m a little confused as to what the issue is here.
 
Mark020
Posts
6,627
Likes
10,382
These were not made consecutively,
Where do you base that on?
 
TWP
Posts
14
Likes
17
Mark020 Mark020
Where do you base that on?
Many collectors and specialists on UG seem to share the opinion that this is likely true, and it's based on the fact that none have been consecutively found, with pieces appearing in-between.

What I meant by that is that is that there is evidence to suggest that there wasn't a clear sequential 'production run' according to the case serials to suggest otherwise - I can add 'these were 'likely' not made consecutively if you like. But I'm still slightly puzzled by your reaction to this, something for which no real concrete evidence exists, only theory among collectors and owners, like myself.

I did not include the serial numbers you mentioned as of yet, because there is no way to verify these, if you have some further verification I'll gladly post them, but let's just soften this all up a touch maybe.

I heard from a pal who has done a lot of research into this ref, along with many others that an old Italian dealer of UG had mentioned that at the time it was very common for many, many dials to be offered to the customers of UG. Anyway, again, a lot of this is simply opinion and theory - I have my theories / ideas of what was done, you're very welcome to yours
 
Mark020
Posts
6,627
Likes
10,382
In the UG archives 22522 is mentioned as Film Compax. In the end it is a standard Compax with a different dial. IMHO 22522's (with the exception of the strange tricompax) started life as FC's. Given that these watches are almost 80 years old the chance that dials have been changed is big. And indeed perhaps some of them even got a new dial when they were sold new, which was quite common in these days. However: with a batch size of 240 pieces they were - in UG terms - not that rare.

I spent thousands of hours researching UG production (especially chrono's) and have databases with in total about 6000 entries. This makes that I have a reasonable insight in:
1) how many chronographs UG produced and
2) how many batches were produced.

There are dozens of references which were made in (much) smaller batches.

Nowadays I am a reluctant to post most of my findings because in the end it will end up at posts of traders wanting to fluff their sales without giving any credit.

I can assure you that cases were made consecutively. I posted a number of threads where I show that.

Traders want to sell these watches as very rare but in the end they are not rarer than most 'normal' UG chrono's. With 10+ know out of probably 240 made we are looking at a Known Survivor Rate of about 4% which is - in the end - only slightly above the number for the entire chrono production from 500k to 1.500k.....
Edited:
 
3 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

valjoux72

Roesslers 1. Generation Zenith Compur: Mystery solved!

valjoux72 Zenith Watches
nicola1960
nicola1960
Posts
25
Views
8K