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Everything that's wrong with this piece? Vintage Heuer Chronograph

Aquariusmatic
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In my never ending quest to hoard as much vintage stuff as possible but keeping within several brands and types of collectibles I've again fumbled with the idea of getting into a vintage Chronograph.

I've found one locally from a brand i cherish almost as i do Omegas. I've found a Heuer pre-Carrera. I'm loving the design, the big eye subdials and the black dial with patinad hands and indices but the watch looks wonky to say the least in comparison with some other images I've googled.

So I'm once again turning to this forum in search of knowledge and advice, can you take a look at the photographs and give me your honest opinion on the watch, whats good whats not good etc etc... I'm liking the big crown and the pushers and thing those are correct but the hands and the luminous look out of place. Is it a sad piece or something i should jump if means allow?
Thanks!
hpc4.jpg hpc3.jpg hpc2.jpg hpc1.jpg
 
Dr.Sascha
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Can you post the exterior caseback as well, if it's accessible? And tell us what the seller's description is and what they are asking? Right off the bat, you can see the case has been aggressively polished, though that's hardly a deal-breaker. Is that Radium lume? That looks like a 400158 movement, though it's not Heuer signed. The numerals and hands look right for a 433 NT from the 1940s, but the only reference dial I could find has a very different tachy and subdial arrangement. https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/1940s-heuer-chronograph-reference-433-nt?variant=12288138838091

What bugs me the most is the lack of signing. Heuer seems to plaster their name wherever they can, but here it's entirely absent except for the dial. I couldn't definitively say franken, but I'm getting that vibe. Also, the mushroom pushers rather than rectangular ones seems unusual for a watch from that period.
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Aquariusmatic
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Dr.Sascha Dr.Sascha
Can you post the exterior caseback as well, if it's accessible? And tell us what the seller's description is and what they are asking? Right off the bat, you can see the case has been aggressively polished, though that's hardly a deal-breaker.
The caseback is polished, I'm more or less inclined to do a trade for items in market value of around 1500€-2000€ that I'm having a hard time of getting rid by selling. Dunno if I'll be asked to spice up the deal by cash or not.

Description reads " Old Heuer chrono, 406 or something close, working, serviced some years ago, unknown provenance, with leather strap and a bund strap" - not much help.

I've found this when googling:
https://www.acollectedman.com/products/heuer-pre-carrera-406nr-watch?variant=5643346214943

The watch in question there seems also to be lacking marks on the movement and the case... I see for myself that this one I've found is in a sadder state than the above but how low does the value drop for me to be making a bad move in getting it?
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Dr.Sascha
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For that kind of dosh, you could get a Nivada CSAD, a Wittnauer Professional, a Wakmann Triple Date or any number of other really sweet 1950s/1960s chronos in tip-top condition that will look great and gain value over time. For a tad more, you could get a Lemania monopusher (e.g. an HS9) that looks just like this but in better condition and with a fantastic gilded movement to boot. Why even take the chance? Heuer is just a name, and, IMHO, an over-valued one at that. People paying 5k+ for what is still simply a bog-standard Valjoux 7730 inside just seems like madness to me. Anyway, that's my .02 Euros on the topic.
 
Aquariusmatic
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Dr.Sascha Dr.Sascha
For that kind of dosh, you could get a Nivada CSAD, a Wittnauer Professional, a Wakmann Triple Date or any number of other really sweet 1950s/1960s chronos in tip-top condition that will look great and gain value over time. For a tad more, you could get a Lemania monopusher (e.g. an HS9) that looks just like this but in better condition and with a sweet gilded movement to boot. Why even take the chance? Heuer is just a name, and, IMHO, an over-valued one at that. People paying 5k+ for what is still simply a bog-standard Valjoux 7730 inside just seems like madness to me. Anyway, that's my .02 Euros on the topic.

True and If i was dropping that kind of money I would not be looking at Heuer or any of those, I'd be getting an El Primero or another Flightmaster or Two.
But seeing this is most likely going to be a trade with *maybe" some cash in play and at that with items i can't get rid of and have obviously acquired as a bad judgement I'm looking at this as kind of a saving grace from throwing that stuck money down the drain.
 
Dr.Sascha
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Aquariusmatic Aquariusmatic
True and If i was dropping that kind of money I would not be looking at Heuer or any of those, I'd be getting an El Primero or another Flightmaster or Two.
But seeing this is most likely going to be a trade with *maybe" some cash in play and at that with items i can't get rid of and have obviously acquired as a bad judgement I'm looking at this as kind of a saving grace from throwing that stuck money down the drain.
Well, fair enough then. Without knowing what's on the other end of the deal, it's hard to tell if this is a fair trade. And you'll still end up with something that you can't, in all honesty, sell as a pre-Carrera Heuer. It also might make you glow in the dark :0 Are the pieces you have on hand so bad that they can't even go up on Ebay? Just trying to profer some alternatives here . . .
 
Aquariusmatic
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Been sitting on eBay since 2018 ::facepalm1:: at -25% of break even price. Did you take a look at the "Collected Gentleman" link I've posted, that watch matches the one I'm looking at pretty close except in the condition. I'm going by the logic luminous hands and luminous dial on this one, no luminous on dial and none on hands at the watch on that site, could be an sub-ok piece?
The items in question are bad judgements on my part, analog camera equipment, enlargers and lenses for them etc. etc. etc. 😟...
 
Dr.Sascha
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Aquariusmatic Aquariusmatic
Been sitting on eBay since 2018 ::facepalm1:: at -25% of break even price. Did you take a look at the "Collected Gentleman" link I've posted, that watch matches the one I'm looking at pretty close except in the condition. I'm going by the logic luminous hands and luminous dial on this one, no luminous on dial and none on hands at the watch on that site, could be an sub-ok piece?
The items in question are bad judgements on my part, analog camera equipment, enlargers and lenses for them etc. etc. etc. 😟...
If that watch on CG has an original dial, I'm the Queen of Sheeba. More likely that yours is original than that one is! You should wait until the Heuer experts weight in. I'd say, given the circumstances, it sounds like not a bad option. If you're happy with the watch , then it's a win!
 
Aquariusmatic
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Dr.Sascha Dr.Sascha
If that watch on CG has an original dial, I'm the Queen of Sheeba. More likely that yours is original than that one is! You should wait until the Heuer experts weight in. I'd say, given the circumstances, it sounds like not a bad option. If you're happy with the watch , then it's a win!

That crossed my mind but I'm so out of touch with anything not being a Monnin cased (tag)Heuer I'm afraid to speak my mind.
 
Dan S
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You have some things that are difficult to sell because they were "bad judgements" on your part. I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly, but I think this watch has a lot of questions about it and has the potential to be another bad judgement. It doesn't look totally kosher to me for various reasons and it's the type of watch I've learned to avoid. It would not be easy to sell.

I know it can feel better to make a trade than to sell things at a loss, but at some point it's better to take a loss, free up the cash, and put it towards something really good and solid.
 
jhross98
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There is just no way the movement shown in OP pics is correct for the watch

I'd steer very very clear of this franken
 
Skrotis
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Early Heuers from late 30s to early 40s are only signed on dial, this case is a screwback from this era whitch is unusual for Heuer that normaly came whit snapback.
The Landeron movement whit incablock was used by Heuer at this time.
The dial looks to be a late 40s or 50s dial,
Old chronographs normally have a history.
 
Aquariusmatic
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Skrotis Skrotis
Early Heuers from late 30s to early 40s are only signed on dial, this case is a screwback from this era whitch is unusual for Heuer that normaly came whit snapback.
The Landeron movement whit incablock was used by Heuer at this time.
The dial looks to be a late 40s or 50s dial,
Old chronographs normally have a history.

It's a snapback, I've found similar watches on Chrono24... Is there a reference that i could further explore or another name for the watch the pre-carrera brings up all sorts of things while searching.

Dan S Dan S
You have some things that are difficult to sell because they were "bad judgements" on your part. I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly, but I think this watch has a lot of questions about it and has the potential to be another bad judgement. It doesn't look totally kosher to me for various reasons and it's the type of watch I've learned to avoid. It would not be easy to sell.

I know it can feel better to make a trade than to sell things at a loss, but at some point it's better to take a loss, free up the cash, and put it towards something really good and solid.


I've tried 50% off as well, as said before its analog photography equipment mostly lab and enlarger parts and devices, I thought i was getting a good deal and bought out an estate lot and have been stuck with it for years now. It takes up a lot of space, can't be sold individually and is causing me problems when moving due to being fragile, lenses have to be stored in house etc...
I did not buy the stuff as an investment but thought if I was ever to stop the hobby i could liquidate it quick at that price point - I was very wrong, I'm not looking at this piece as something I'd be commercially exploiting, collecting watches is a hobby and one i'm very sure i'm loosing money with but I'm fine with that at the moment.
Just regarding this situation this seller is the first person to show interest in these items since 2018 and I'm trying to weigh my options and learn stuff in the process...
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Skrotis
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Aquariusmatic Aquariusmatic
It's a snapback, I've found similar watches on Chrono24... Is there a reference that i could further explore or another name for the watch the pre-carrera brings up all sorts of things while searching.


If you check the 3 photo you can se the smal square that early sqrewback cases have, if a snapback the case is broken.
Sorry for bad explenation my english is not the best.

A5A6429A-2ABB-42DC-8B2F-D74722077A3A.jpeg
 
Skrotis
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I belive you have the same case as the link in a collected man
 
Aquariusmatic
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Skrotis Skrotis
I belive you have the same case as the link in a collected man

Correct, the seller said it's a snap back - could be he just doesn't know how to open it properly...
 
Skrotis
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Aquariusmatic Aquariusmatic
Correct, the seller said it's a snap back - could be he just doesn't know how to open it properly...


Since there is a movement photo he opend it, if he used force and a knife the case is probaly damage.

U should make shore case is ok before doing something else. Good casemakers are harder to find then good watchmakers and normaly expensive.
 
Aquariusmatic
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Skrotis Skrotis
Since there is a movement photo he opend it, if he used force and a knife the case is probaly damage.

U should make shore case is ok before doing something else. Good casemakers are harder to find then good watchmakers and normaly expensive.

Crossed my mind, I'll take a look at the watch in person this Tuesday and report from there. Thank you for your keen eye and input and to everyone else that contributed to this thread.
 
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