Every time i see a Porsche 911 i have this feeling…

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Sorry for being such a party pooper, the only thing it evokes for me is the following New York Times article.
In esssnce, Porsche (and VW) was built on slave labor from concentration camps, stolen property, never made amends, and according to a recent New York Times article routinely lies about its history. No point forcing restitutions on everyone else and giving them a pass.

They Are the Heirs of Nazi Fortunes, and They Aren’t Apologizing
April 19, 2022


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/19/...uandt-flick.html?referringSource=articleShare


[Ferry Porsche]voluntarily applied to the SS in 1938, was admitted as an officer in 1941 and lied about this for the rest of his life. During most of the war, Mr. Porsche was busy leading the Porsche company in Stuttgart, which exploited hundreds of coerced workers. As Porsche’s chief executive in the postwar decades, he surrounded himself with former high-ranking SS officers.

In his 1976 autobiography, Mr. Porsche gave a twisted historical account, full of antisemitic statements, about Porsche’s Jewish co-founder, Adolf Rosenberger. He even accused Mr. Rosenberger of extortion after he was forced to flee Nazi Germany. The truth was that in 1935, Ferry Porsche received Mr. Rosenberger’s company shares after his father, Ferdinand Porsche, and brother-in-law, Anton Piëch, bought the co-founder out of the company, paying far below market value for his shares.

Today Porsche doesn’t just sponsor professorships or make sports cars. Together with their cousins the Piëchs, the Porsches control the Volkswagen Group, which includes Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat, Skoda and Volkswagen. The combined net worth of the Porsche-Piëch clan is estimated at around $20 billion. They are now preparing to spin Porsche off from the Volkswagen Group and list the sports car company in what is shaping up to be one of the largest initial public offerings of 2022.

The Porsches have never publicly addressed the activities of their patriarchs during the Third Reich. And it wasn’t only Ferry Porsche who was implicated: Ferdinand Porsche, who designed the Volkswagen, during the war ran the Volkswagen factory with Mr. Piëch. There, tens of thousands of people were used as forced and slave laborers to mass-produce weapons.
 
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Me Too! Here are some, past and preset:



I took the tail off this 911 Carrera.
Mine has sadly accumulated another year of dust covering. The local indy shops are still pretty backlogged with work. I still hope to have it back on the road this year.
 
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Sorry for being such a party pooper, the only thing it evokes for me is the following New York Times article.
In esssnce, Porsche (and VW) was built on slave labor from concentration camps, stolen property, never made amends, and according to a recent New York Times article routinely lies about its history. No point forcing restitutions on everyone else and giving them a pass.

They Are the Heirs of Nazi Fortunes, and They Aren’t Apologizing
April 19, 2022


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/19/...uandt-flick.html?referringSource=articleShare


[Ferry Porsche]voluntarily applied to the SS in 1938, was admitted as an officer in 1941 and lied about this for the rest of his life. During most of the war, Mr. Porsche was busy leading the Porsche company in Stuttgart, which exploited hundreds of coerced workers. As Porsche’s chief executive in the postwar decades, he surrounded himself with former high-ranking SS officers.

In his 1976 autobiography, Mr. Porsche gave a twisted historical account, full of antisemitic statements, about Porsche’s Jewish co-founder, Adolf Rosenberger. He even accused Mr. Rosenberger of extortion after he was forced to flee Nazi Germany. The truth was that in 1935, Ferry Porsche received Mr. Rosenberger’s company shares after his father, Ferdinand Porsche, and brother-in-law, Anton Piëch, bought the co-founder out of the company, paying far below market value for his shares.

Today Porsche doesn’t just sponsor professorships or make sports cars. Together with their cousins the Piëchs, the Porsches control the Volkswagen Group, which includes Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat, Skoda and Volkswagen. The combined net worth of the Porsche-Piëch clan is estimated at around $20 billion. They are now preparing to spin Porsche off from the Volkswagen Group and list the sports car company in what is shaping up to be one of the largest initial public offerings of 2022.

The Porsches have never publicly addressed the activities of their patriarchs during the Third Reich. And it wasn’t only Ferry Porsche who was implicated: Ferdinand Porsche, who designed the Volkswagen, during the war ran the Volkswagen factory with Mr. Piëch. There, tens of thousands of people were used as forced and slave laborers to mass-produce weapons.

That is a very blinkered view and wrong on many levels. Modern VW by which I mean post war was set up by the British Army with no links to the failed KdF Wagen program which delivered none of its promised cars. Yes F Porsche designed tanks and the factories that made them no doubt used slave labour but so did every other German concern. IG Farben (BASF, Agfa, Bayer) made Zyklon B gas for gods sake. Do you feel the same about them? You have to draw the line somewhere. Own anything Japanese? They were bastards to POWs.

The sins of the fathers etc.
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If we are talking about chronographs associated with motor sports - you cannot go past the Heuer Autavia - models linked to Jo Siffert, Mario Andretti, Jochen Rindt etc. I'm an Omega guy through and through but sought out a 'Siffert' 1163T Autavia for that very motorsport connection...

And also an air-cooled Porsche fan; probably 'nicest' car ever owned was a '76 Carrera 3.0 - saved my life by being rear-engined when hit head on by an out-of-control car...
 
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If we are talking about chronographs associated with motor sports - you cannot go past the Heuer Autavia - models linked to Jo Siffert, Mario Andretti, Jochen Rindt etc. I'm an Omega guy through and through but sought out a 'Siffert' 1163T Autavia for that very motorsport connection...

And also an air-cooled Porsche fan; probably 'nicest' car ever owned was a '76 Carrera 3.0 - saved my life by being rear-engined when hit head on by an out-of-control car...
Sad to see it die but good that it did its job keeping you alive. My dad had the same model, ‘77 Carrera 3.0 in Ice Green Metallic long ago, I found it in 2019 still around locally with 130k on the clock, great condition. Sadly couldn’t get finance on it due to its age so bought an agate grey PDK 991S instead which has had its own interesting stories and adventures in the hands of a 17 year old car thief, but I’ve daily driven it and put about 10,000km / year on it. Incredibly comfortable way to make commuting more fun.

 
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You are right. It s a 930
Meter on the pic shows oil temperature.
911 hardly raise temperature
At least in my experience

And in my experience, 250F and above is a little hot lol.
Just curious, is yours often running that high?
 
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Maybe wrong forum but it s an icon watch deeply associated with car racing. Speedmaster ended up linked to the moon missions though it was conceived for other purpose
this one i had some years ago was maybe a car oriented timepiece but has not achieved the legend status!
 
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Sorry for being such a party pooper, the only thing it evokes for me is the following New York Times article.
In esssnce, Porsche (and VW) was built on slave labor from concentration camps, stolen property, never made amends, and according to a recent New York Times article routinely lies about its history. No point forcing restitutions on everyone else and giving them a pass.

They Are the Heirs of Nazi Fortunes, and They Aren’t Apologizing
April 19, 2022


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/19/...uandt-flick.html?referringSource=articleShare


[Ferry Porsche]voluntarily applied to the SS in 1938, was admitted as an officer in 1941 and lied about this for the rest of his life. During most of the war, Mr. Porsche was busy leading the Porsche company in Stuttgart, which exploited hundreds of coerced workers. As Porsche’s chief executive in the postwar decades, he surrounded himself with former high-ranking SS officers.

In his 1976 autobiography, Mr. Porsche gave a twisted historical account, full of antisemitic statements, about Porsche’s Jewish co-founder, Adolf Rosenberger. He even accused Mr. Rosenberger of extortion after he was forced to flee Nazi Germany. The truth was that in 1935, Ferry Porsche received Mr. Rosenberger’s company shares after his father, Ferdinand Porsche, and brother-in-law, Anton Piëch, bought the co-founder out of the company, paying far below market value for his shares.

Today Porsche doesn’t just sponsor professorships or make sports cars. Together with their cousins the Piëchs, the Porsches control the Volkswagen Group, which includes Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat, Skoda and Volkswagen. The combined net worth of the Porsche-Piëch clan is estimated at around $20 billion. They are now preparing to spin Porsche off from the Volkswagen Group and list the sports car company in what is shaping up to be one of the largest initial public offerings of 2022.

The Porsches have never publicly addressed the activities of their patriarchs during the Third Reich. And it wasn’t only Ferry Porsche who was implicated: Ferdinand Porsche, who designed the Volkswagen, during the war ran the Volkswagen factory with Mr. Piëch. There, tens of thousands of people were used as forced and slave laborers to mass-produce weapons.

It's hard to find any German company that wasn't complicit during this time. They fell in line to get contracts from the government and turned a blind eye or fully participated in the twisted violations to humanity. There is a very informative special on Porsche's activities in the weapons of war effort in the '30s and '40s then details of France's efforts to hold the family accountable. There are no pics of Porsche in an SS uniform but he was an officer. A very dark period for the human race.
 
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i bought the bullhead in a province and it had a damage at 2. luckily there was a spare part
 
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i don t feel that way regarding speedmasters but i believe it s all down to personal taste. even think that some heuers might be horology s porsche

maybe it looks unsightly now, but it represents the aggressive sports design of that time
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A year ago I was able to buy my first Porsche, a used 2008 Carrera S.
I think the rounded shape of its design is a nice balance between the classic 911's and the newer ones.
And, I find its manual transmission a complete joy to drive.

 
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Same thing happens with rare and desirable timepieces
Maybe a mix between passion and speculation. That s the way market and desire interact

preserving it as a time capsule may be a point. if nobody kept cars in like new condition we could not see untouched museum pieces today
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Never drove or owned a porsche. My uncle has owned many over the years and recently just purchased another one but man do I enjoy looking at all these pictures of older ones. The new ones just don't do it for me as much
 
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That is a very blinkered view and wrong on many levels. Modern VW by which I mean post war was set up by the British Army with no links to the failed KdF Wagen program which delivered none of its promised cars. Yes F Porsche designed tanks and the factories that made them no doubt used slave labour but so did every other German concern. IG Farben (BASF, Agfa, Bayer) made Zyklon B gas for gods sake. Do you feel the same about them? You have to draw the line somewhere. Own anything Japanese? They were bastards to POWs.

The sins of the fathers etc.


I agree with much of what you say, @padders. Look up ‘Japan Unit 31’; the atrocities committed there beggar belief. Indeed, they often upped the ante on many Nazi crimes. Japan’s war criminals and those who perpetrated the industrial precision of Nazi mass murder have their unique place in Hell. Even that’s too good for them, in my view.

Nevertheless, the essay @Syrte provided (I read this excellently researched piece when it first came out) discusses the arrogant disregard of these German families to simply reflect publicly on the sympathetic and complicit roles their founders played in arguably history’s bleakest hour. Their bloodied hands planted the seeds that produced the fruits of their descendants’ colossal wealth. And yet: Not. A. F’in. Word. ‘The Porsches have never publicly addressed the activities of their patriarchs during the Third Reich.’ This is the point I believe Syrte was making.

Not all Japanese or German citizens or companies were willing participants, of course. So yes, I own plenty of items manufactured in both countries. I’m a hypocrite, too; my wife and I both drive VWs; I’ve recently owned Audis (and even a beater BMW Bavaria); and my drums are built in Germany by the firm who provided many a Tin Drum to the Wehrmacht.

It’s about recognition.

And for the record? In my world, in addition to the 1973 BMW 3.0csi, the Porsche 911 in all its variants (Targa especially) continues to be the most beautiful car to behold. I simply can’t afford one and they suck for moving musical equipment. (My Audi TT fit my jazz drum kit, however. But the looks I got from folks at gigs….)
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I get to drive my wife's Boxster once in a while and I hope she will not swap it for a 911!


Definitely want a wife to give advance notice before she sets about swapping.
 
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A year ago I was able to buy my first Porsche, a used 2008 Carrera S.
I think the rounded shape of its design is a nice balance between the classic 911's and the newer ones.
And, I find its manual transmission a complete joy to drive.

Lovely colour. I too have a 997 and I share your opinion of how it combines the design cues of the older cars with a modern look and tech. All 911s offer something good.

Miranda approves:

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Some of my 911 memories

This is from Le Mans Classic in 2014


This f-model gave my daughter and me some nice holiday memories. Each summer we drove to different danish island on vacation, that was when she still enjoyed spending time with the older segment 😀


This is from the local airport for small aircrafts
 
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There s not one way of enjoying
In my case i love using the cars as they were built for that. But preservation for further appreciation as a time capsule is also something interesting

the Porsches are special and the Daytonas I put them in comparison with what is related to motorsports, of course there are better watches than the Daytona, but not as representative with motorsports, except for the Heuer chronograph

it s a conjunction between mechanics and design which made one of the most representative racing cars ever
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