Hello guys. I'm new here. Just a quick query. Does this look legit? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171371251523Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
Watch looks legit to me, but I'm not an expert (i'm sure several of the really expert people around here will chime in). Pictures aren't that great, but the case, dial, bezel, bracelet and case back all look right to me. Case back looks polished, but the lugs seem to have good lines still and not overly polished in any way, to my eye. I don't know if the box is correct for this watch (meaning I'm not expert enough to say). I would take exception with the sellers description about "unique" aspects of this watch. All Speedmaster Professionals have the anti-magnetic plate (I've recently been educated about this myself). The script used for "Speedmaster" looks correct for the period, and thus is not a unique feature per se. More info on that is here: http://chronomaddox.com/speedy_dial_details.html Most folks around here will tell you its a good idea to get a photo of the inner case back, and the movement, as a further check on legitimacy of the piece, and condition of the movement.
Unless I've missed it somewhere in the ad, it doesn't claim to be a pre-moon. It looks like a normal late 80's/90's moonwatch to me.
This is not pre-moon, nor is it claimed to be. This is what I mentioned in my first post, the sketchy description in the Ebay ad. The only reference to "pre-moon" in the ad is as follows: 1) It has an Anti-Magnetic tough armour plate on the inside, to protect the movement of the watch and this was used in the Original pre-moon Speedmasters
48m serial is one of those series I see all over the place - that is in different case - years. I think (think think not know!) that this is one of the serial ranges used when Omega replaced movements at service. That said it is also in Speedmasters in the post 1990's. The bracelet is unusual, but I am not familiar with this period's bracelets. It may or may not be correct. The price is at the high end for a watch without a bracelet or service history. On the positive side it looks in good condition, and has the original gaurantee. So in summary, its not crazy overpriced, but it is not a bargain. Personally I do not find this period attractive, though there are plenty who prefer exactly this - a second hand watch with a closer look to the Speedmaster of today I would try to find a pre 1976 (with a stepped dial) and a 1171 bracelet. This would also have hands and dial with a some charm
So, are you saying that in 1976 they switched to the domed sub-dials and a different bracelet? That would really help me. The reason I ask is that I recently bought a 1974 Speedmaster Pro Moon Watch with the correct '74 case back, original stepped dial, and original 1171 bracelet; However the movement has a serial number in the 39 million range placing it around 1979. My watch maker is fairly sure it really is a 1974 model, based on the original parts and the history from the second owner who has owned the watch for decades (I am the 3rd owner). The seller is an old man who is adamant that this was was first sold in 1974, but he doesn't recall exactly when he got the watch or whether the movement was replaced at some point. Knowing that my stepped dial, 1171 bracelet, and 1974 stamped case back all correctly place the watch to "Pre 1976" would re-assure me that this is not a 1979 watch with the wrong case back. I did get a $500 price drop because the movement didn't match the rest of the watch, and I just picked it up today after being serviced. The patina is much stronger/yellow in real life than in brightly lit iPhone 5s photos (movement shot is pre-service). Thanks - and hope you don't mind me NOT starting a new topic, since this is related to your advise above...
The mid 70's speedmasters strike a sweet spot between value, attraction, practicality and availability. the minutiae in this reference are far less influential on the value than earlier references. I believe the dial changed from step to dome in the mid 70's with no definite date or cut point on the change. The serial numbers in this period here don't follow the Hartman table as closely as we would like. I don't see your 39m serial as out of observed ranges. the 1171 bracelet was fitted in early 70's, but often retro fitted to earlier references because it is more practical than the 1039/1035 and earlier lighter bracelets. Have a a look at www.speedmaster101.com for more of my thoughts on these very desirable references. i love the 70's !
I understand that they changed to Delrin brake in 1974/75. The fact that it's also got the stepped dial, 1171, and a '74 case back seem to support the story that it's a 1974 Moon Watch, right? PS: I have read every page of speedmaster101.com before, thanks!
although pictures can be misleading, I do not see any step, but if you have the watch it should be easy for you to see the step.
Yes, photos have a tendency to reduce the 3D depth on the subject. When I was looking at the dial from an angle in person, it looked like there was a center disc with the subdials in it, and then a lower outer ring with the minute markers that sloped downwards. But now that I look with reading glasses on I see the curve is more gentle and not clearly a well delineated step. The dial painting may have a misleading effect. Or I think the effect I was seeing is from the curvature at the edge of the hesalite crystal distorting my view (plus my astigmatism). I feel stupid. I just read elsewhere that stepped dials were phased out by 1971, not 1974-75. EDIT - I dug out a 10x loupe and the paint is definitely misleading, with a darker and smoother finish on the black in the ring with the minute markers. It gave off the effect of different heights to my eyes.
This is also due to the descending bevel (slope) in the outer part (not only a glass effect), which causes at the limit with flat central part, a difference of angle, giving the impression of a line. this dial, still with the medium S of Speedmaster, is correct for a '74 case reference. During '76 case reference a new dial or rather a new typography will appear with a taller S
So, I still have the dial, case and bracelet of a '74-75 as the seller claims? The seller is an honest old man with nothing to gain by making up the age of the watch, and the value would be the same for a '74 or a '79, so I'm told. I got the price down to $2K because it appeared to be a '74 as claimed, but with a movement serial number from around 1979 = mismatch (and maybe hands were changed in 79 too since the patina is less). I'm told it's very possible that Omega put a different 861 movement back in during it's first 5 year service, because they didn't expect collectors would be anal about having everything match. I still blew to the money to order an extract from Omega the other day, and although I didn't get the promised email receipt I was charged (and receipt is not in junk mail). I did print the web page confirmation, but it's not a real receipt. We'll see how that goes, but I'm not sure if Omega will have recorded am intentional movement swap. And an un-intentional swap would mean the extract is for someone else's watch, except that they also asked for the case reference number which was 145022- 74 ST and that would not match the other watch from 1979.
I have already observed 145.022-74 with 39.18 mio serial, so no worry, everything should be correct in my opinion