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eBay authenticity gone crazy

JwRosenthal
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ndgal ndgal
A couple of months before this "Authenticity" BS program was rolled in, I picked up an incredibly mint and untouched one-owner Speedmaster on eBay.
The watch was never opened since it left Bienne 50+ years ago, and the caseback was almost welded shut. (No movement pictures in the listing obviously). It took my watchmaker about 15 minutes and a lot of patience to carefully open the caseback without damaging it... I coudn't help but think what would have happened had this watch would have gotten to the hands of an "Authenticator".... 🤦

Sure enough, a few weeks ago I got my answer when I bought yet another dead mint Speedy on eBay, only to receive the watch with the case all dinged and dented up! (Looks like someone dropped it on the floor...). In order to get a refund from the seller, I had to send it to be re-authenticated on the return trip. I googled the shop by the shipping address I was provided (No store name was given by eBay). Sure enough, looks like your regular "Joe-Schmoe" neighborhood watchmaker shop that specializes in several other low-end brands (Baume & Mercier etc...) not even Omega. I guarantee they wouldn't know how to authenticate a vintage Speedy lume even if it hit them in the head...

This "Authentication" program might be good for modern pieces. But for vintage? No way Jose!
And what recourse does that seller have? Now his watch is damaged, he won’t get the value it had before it was “authenticated”, will ebay buy the watch for the sale price it received and eat the cost? Will they blame him? Do they deny any liability in the terms of the sellers agreement? This is all very disturbing
 
jsducote
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Why don't we go undercover and put a known fake on eBay, have it "authenticated," then have @Robert-Jan publish the whole thing as a journalistic endeavor to blow the lid?
 
Mark020
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Link does not work
 
josiahg52
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Somehow I got on a "list" of what I guess are "prolific" buyers and eBay has spent two years sending me polls and questionnaires. The last year, the subject of authenticity of watches sold on eBay was a big topic. Probably answered at least five of these things regarding the subject. They were not short and seemed to ask the same or, at least, very similar questions again and again but in a slightly different way.

I replied that I personally have no belief that a watch purchased from eBay with an authenticity guarantee would be better than one without.

- That eBay is not the primary market I want to purchase an expensive watch through regardless of any guarantee.

- That I want the items I purchase to go through the smallest number of hands as possible.

- I would be more inclined to purchase lower priced watches in the sub-$200 range from eBay with an authenticity guarantee because my exposure is lower even owing to the extra shipping steps involved with such a guarantee.

- That ultimately I would need to verify who the "leading industry experts" are, how many "years of experience" the "leaders in their industry" have, who the "brand certified watchmakers and technicians" are and what brands have certified them, and what "technical equipment" is being used and where is/are the "state-of-the-art facility/ies" that are being used to authenticate these watches.

I received no feedback from eBay.

For modern, lower-cost watches, sure, whatever. No way for vintage or valuable pieces. And then one has to consider some of the buyer protections that are being given up for purchasing such authenticated watches.
 
connieseamaster
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So I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but eBay (or at least a Reddit account that claims to be the eBay watch department) is saying that they're using Stoll & Co. for their authentication service: https://www.americaswatchmaker.com/

I've never heard of them, and they don't list Omega or Rolex on their list of brands that they're authorized to repair by the factory. Has anyone ever heard of these people?
 
M
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I have had several watches I sold on Ebay go through the authentication process and one I bought. Both went through Stoll & Company in Dayton, Ohio, a very well-known national watch repair company with substantial expertise and the factory authorized repair facility for numerous watch brands.

https://www.americaswatchmaker.com/

I understand that there is another authenticator in Utah called Times Ticking Watch Repair that handles the western U.S. I suspect that they are probably equally capable. In my experience, the buyers of the watches I sold were extremely pleased with the service and I was equally pleased as a buyer. The watches, unless the buyer describes them as modified, that could be auctioned at over $2,000 are automatically placed in the authentication program certain brands and models are also placed in the program regardless of price.

It is possible that some watches may mistakenly be put in the program as the selection process is automated and there may be "false positives".

The exact rules are:

What items are eligible for eBay Authenticity Guarantee?
Watches
Only watches sold in the Wristwatches category for $2000 or more are currently eligible. (Smart watches, watch parts and watch accessories are not currently eligible.)

  • Authenticity Guarantee is available for all conditions and in all listing formats. However, if an item sells for under $2000 in an Auction listing, it may not be eligible for authentication
    • Top models from luxury watch brands, such as Rolex Submariner, Omega Seamaster or Breitling Navitimer, are eligible regardless of the final sale price for auction-style listings
  • Watches specified as "Customized" are currently not eligible for authentication. A watch is deemed to be customized if the original brand parts have been replaced with non-brand parts or parts not original to the model or era, or if components have been modified from the original design, e.g. adding a diamond to the bezel or dial
There are some exceptions for vintage watches:

  • Vintage watches which are verified as authentic by the third-party authentication partner may contain replacement parts that are not from the original manufacturer if the original manufacturer no longer makes that part
  • Vintage watches with commonly replaced aftermarket parts, such as a strap, bracelet, crystal, spring bars, or gaskets will be eligible for the program
To be eligible, watches must be sold on ebay.com by a seller located in the US, UK, Canada, Japan, Italy, Germany or South Korea. They also must be sold to a buyer located in the continental US.
 
Archer
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connieseamaster connieseamaster
So I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but eBay (or at least a Reddit account that claims to be the eBay watch department) is saying that they're using Stoll & Co. for their authentication service: https://www.americaswatchmaker.com/

I've never heard of them, and they don't list Omega or Rolex on their list of brands that they're authorized to repair by the factory. Has anyone ever heard of these people?

This was mentioned quite some time ago in another thread when this program was first announced. I believe it was on another forum where someone had stated who it was, and that information was posted here.

I've seen mixed views on this - the casual buyer is all for it mostly, but the people who obsess about every detail of a vintage watch (ie. the people who frequent this part of the forum) are not on board typically.
 
ndgal
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connieseamaster connieseamaster
So I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but eBay (or at least a Reddit account that claims to be the eBay watch department) is saying that they're using Stoll & Co. for their authentication service: https://www.americaswatchmaker.com/

I've never heard of them, and they don't list Omega or Rolex on their list of brands that they're authorized to repair by the factory. Has anyone ever heard of these people?

Yes... Me...

ndgal ndgal
Sure enough, looks like your regular "Joe-Schmoe" neighborhood watchmaker shop that specializes in several other low-end brands (Baume & Mercier etc...) not even Omega. I guarantee they wouldn't know how to authenticate a vintage Speedy lume even if it hit them in the head...
 
connieseamaster
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ndgal ndgal
Yes... Me...
Sorry, I didn't see where you had mentioned the name of the shop in your original post. Some members may be blessed with an encyclopedic knowledge and memory of what is posted on this forum, but I am not one of them 😁
Edited:
 
ndgal
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connieseamaster connieseamaster
Sorry, I didn't see where you had mentioned the name of the shop in your original post. Some members may be blessed with an encyclopedic knowledge and memory of what is posted on this forum, but I am not one of them.
No. I did not mention the name.
 
M
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ndgal ndgal
One of those 60 employees dropped the vintage Speedmaster I bought on the floor so...😵‍💫

I have no idea if one of the Stoll and Co. employees damaged the watch you mention, I have no idea what the chain of custody was I don't know if the seller may have posted fake photos (it happens), however, I do know that Stoll & Co. are not a "Joe Schmoe" local watchmaker.
 
ndgal
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M montelatici
I have no idea if one of the Stoll and Co. employees damaged the watch you mention, I have no idea what the chain of custody was I don't know if the seller may have posted fake photos (it happens), however, I do know that Stoll & Co. are not a "Joe Schmoe" local watchmaker.
Let's put it this way; they are certainly not a known authority when it comes to authenticating and servicing vintage Omega watches.. Heck, they don't even have Omega listed as one of the brands they specialize in... Yet eBay has them authenticate Omegas.. Ok... 🤦
 
M
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ndgal ndgal
Let's put it this way; they are certainly not a known authority when it comes to authenticating and servicing vintage Omega watches.. Heck, they don't even have Omega listed as one of the brands they specialize in... Yet eBay has them authenticate Omegas.. Ok... 🤦

The list they have is for factory authorized service. Omega's authorized factory service is at the Swatch Group centers in NJ and FL. Stoll does plenty of Omega servicing, in fact, according to Omega group members on WatchuSeek local watchmakers that have issues with repairs on Omegas send the watches to Stoll & Co. If you read the article in Europa Star, you will note that watches are sent to Stoll from overseas, including Europe for repair. They are a world class outfit. I don't understand where you are getting your information regarding Stoll & Co. Why denigrate a company you know nothing about? I don't get it.
 
ndgal
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M montelatici
The list they have is for factory authorized service. Omega's authorized factory service is at the Swatch Group centers in NJ and FL. Stoll does plenty of Omega servicing, in fact, according to Omega group members on WatchuSeek local watchmakers that have issues with repairs on Omegas send the watches to Stoll & Co. If you read the article in Europa Star, you will note that watches are sent to Stoll from overseas, including Europe for repair. They are a world class outfit. I don't understand where you are getting your information regarding Stoll & Co. Why denigrate a company you know nothing about? I don't get it.
I can only speak for my experience.
You are welcome to have them authenticate your next vintage Omega purchase! 👍
 
M
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ndgal ndgal
I can only speak for my experience.
You are welcome to have them authenticate your next vintage Omega purchase! 👍

As a matter of fact:

redacted.jpg
 
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