- Posts
- 1,432
- Likes
- 1,431
sgrossma
·I think when you list a watch, eBay algorithm tries to predict what will sell over $2k.
It’s just a bad algorithm perhaps ...
It’s just a bad algorithm perhaps ...
eBay authenticity gone crazy
- Posts
- 100
- Likes
- 131
Mad Cow
·Simple eBay logic - none. No worry on it, same swamp as always. ☕
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,994
JwRosenthal
·Look at which one does not have the guarantee.
oh- and please, authenticate the bottom one...I dare you!
oh- and please, authenticate the bottom one...I dare you!
- Posts
- 1,432
- Likes
- 1,431
sgrossma
·Look at which one does not have the guarantee.
oh- and please, authenticate the bottom one...I dare you!
- Posts
- 473
- Likes
- 1,187
Wlcutter
·I find the whole thing extremely odd. Bought a Datejust; it was authenticated, took an extra 3 days for delivery. Sold a $6k chronograph internationally, shipped directly to the buyer *despite* the watch picking up an Authenticity Guarantee. I'd surmise we're just seeing a sort of wild-west shake-out of a new program they're not entirely sure on how to correctly execute.
- Posts
- 1,432
- Likes
- 1,431
sgrossma
·I find the whole thing extremely odd. Bought a Datejust; it was authenticated, took an extra 3 days for delivery. Sold a $6k chronograph internationally, shipped directly to the buyer *despite* the watch picking up an Authenticity Guarantee. I'd surmise we're just seeing a sort of wild-west shake-out of a new program they're not entirely sure on how to correctly execute.
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,994
JwRosenthal
·Interestingly, the first one says in the description that items are not guaranteed to be in original condition. I wonder if ebay picks up on the language or has someone manually reviewing as well. That’s why it isn’t covered, technically speaking.
- Posts
- 1,432
- Likes
- 1,431
sgrossma
·Interesting....so if one were to want to bypass the system, one could theoretically say that the watch isn’t 100% original as it has replacement oils, or perhaps aftermarket spring bars....hmmm
Yeah. It says correct brand parts that are period correct are okay. Anything else is not okay.
The craziest part about this whole thing which I recently brought up in an ultraman eBay thread is... wait for it...
You CANNOT open a case for significantly not as described items, because the authenticator confirms the item matches the listing. If the seller has “no returns” listed, the sale is FINAL. eBay money back guarantee thus now only applies to lost or damaged items, per the T&C.
So be extra careful out there now....
We know the authenticators won’t always catch everything and will pass some watches off as good that aren’t. And then there will be nothing the buyer can do if they catch something later on in these cases.
- Posts
- 6,498
- Likes
- 10,176
Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerSad to see that somebody like Nick Wooster markets this BS
- Posts
- 2,921
- Likes
- 14,963
- Posts
- 1,432
- Likes
- 1,431
sgrossma
·Ultimately I believe they are going to charge for this service, but time will tell.
The shoe authentication service explicitly says it is no cost for a limited time only.
The shoe authentication service explicitly says it is no cost for a limited time only.
- Posts
- 974
- Likes
- 1,512
- Posts
- 6,649
- Likes
- 52,273
noelekal
··Home For Wayward WatcheseBay is a watch purchasing minefield, but eBay authentication has all the value of a faulty mine detector for negotiating it.
Smoke and mirrors
https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-seller/
Only one opinion, but I place no value in eBay authentication, not in the experts, not in the process. I've searched eBay for a description of its authenticating "experts" and have uncovered no reassuring detail on who these "third-party authentication partners" are and what are their qualifications. I am awaiting delivery of a simple Seamaster 30 eBay purchase that apparently managed to slip under eBay's authentication radar and for that I am happy. "Buyer beware" offers more comfort to even a non expert like me than does an ill explained, haphazard, yet overly promoted "song and dance" arbitrarily administered by eBay.
This entire page distorts more than it clarifies.
https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-watches/
We'll just pick on the eBay experts.
"eBay has partnered with leading industry experts whose services and capabilities have been thoroughly vetted. The authentication partners are leaders in their industry, with years of experience, brand certified watchmakers and technicians, using advanced technical equipment in a state-of-the-art facility."
How does this partnership arrangement work? What describes a leading industry expert? I mean ... as opposed to a mere following expert? How were the experts thoroughly vetted? What is deemed to be adequate years of experience? If they're leading experts in their industry then shouldn't they be too valuable and too busy elsewhere to bother doing mundane work of inspecting used watches for eBay? Do eBay customers get to see watchmakers' and technicians' certifications? Do the customers learn the name of the expert who "certified" their watch or or they faceless experts? What is this technical equipment and how advanced is it? How advanced does the equipment have to be for such a superficial physical authentication inspection as is described? State-of-the-art facility? What is that?
"Can I choose to not have my item authenticated?
No."
What's to keep a bidder from couching a message in the form of a question to an eBay seller agreeing to bid to buy a watch on condition that the seller will send the purchase directly to the bidder, circumventing the obstruction that is the authentication process? It's certain that dire things would happen to a seller's ability to sell on eBay if any such arrangement was detected, however I didn't find any fine print describing provisos against it.
This is just Ebay nannying and I won't be nannied. I particularly don't want Ebay's "experts" getting their grubby little paws on any watch purchases I might make. It's also additional cost, wasted time, and risk. If I'm denied the option to take my chances with my Ebay watch purchases then I simply won't buy through Ebay anymore. I'm sure they're not going to miss little ol' me anyway.
Smoke and mirrors
https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-seller/
Only one opinion, but I place no value in eBay authentication, not in the experts, not in the process. I've searched eBay for a description of its authenticating "experts" and have uncovered no reassuring detail on who these "third-party authentication partners" are and what are their qualifications. I am awaiting delivery of a simple Seamaster 30 eBay purchase that apparently managed to slip under eBay's authentication radar and for that I am happy. "Buyer beware" offers more comfort to even a non expert like me than does an ill explained, haphazard, yet overly promoted "song and dance" arbitrarily administered by eBay.
This entire page distorts more than it clarifies.
https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-watches/
We'll just pick on the eBay experts.
"eBay has partnered with leading industry experts whose services and capabilities have been thoroughly vetted. The authentication partners are leaders in their industry, with years of experience, brand certified watchmakers and technicians, using advanced technical equipment in a state-of-the-art facility."
How does this partnership arrangement work? What describes a leading industry expert? I mean ... as opposed to a mere following expert? How were the experts thoroughly vetted? What is deemed to be adequate years of experience? If they're leading experts in their industry then shouldn't they be too valuable and too busy elsewhere to bother doing mundane work of inspecting used watches for eBay? Do eBay customers get to see watchmakers' and technicians' certifications? Do the customers learn the name of the expert who "certified" their watch or or they faceless experts? What is this technical equipment and how advanced is it? How advanced does the equipment have to be for such a superficial physical authentication inspection as is described? State-of-the-art facility? What is that?
"Can I choose to not have my item authenticated?
No."
What's to keep a bidder from couching a message in the form of a question to an eBay seller agreeing to bid to buy a watch on condition that the seller will send the purchase directly to the bidder, circumventing the obstruction that is the authentication process? It's certain that dire things would happen to a seller's ability to sell on eBay if any such arrangement was detected, however I didn't find any fine print describing provisos against it.
This is just Ebay nannying and I won't be nannied. I particularly don't want Ebay's "experts" getting their grubby little paws on any watch purchases I might make. It's also additional cost, wasted time, and risk. If I'm denied the option to take my chances with my Ebay watch purchases then I simply won't buy through Ebay anymore. I'm sure they're not going to miss little ol' me anyway.
Edited:
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
- Posts
- 3,133
- Likes
- 5,565
- Posts
- 1,615
- Likes
- 3,859
S.H.
·"eBay has partnered with leading industry experts whose services and capabilities have been thoroughly vetted. The authentication partners are leaders in their industry, with years of experience, brand certified watchmakers and technicians, using advanced technical equipment in a state-of-the-art facility."
That is weapon grade highly refined BS 😁
- Posts
- 1,432
- Likes
- 1,431
sgrossma
·I'd argue that the policy is good or neutral for (pros):
- buying modern, mainstream watches
- new sellers with low feedback who will likely benefit / get a boost in sales
- weeding out some of the worst ebay scum / the most obvious scams & scammers
- protect all sellers against unfair claims
I'd ague that the policy is especially bad for (cons):
- buying any sort of vintage watch, mainstream or not
- opens the door for new loopholes and scammers that can figure out how to get around some of the authenticators and make returns especially more difficult.
Overall I think it is mildly good as a whole, but buyers need to be especially careful with the added false confidence provided by the program. I think this benefits sellers more than buyers.
- buying modern, mainstream watches
- new sellers with low feedback who will likely benefit / get a boost in sales
- weeding out some of the worst ebay scum / the most obvious scams & scammers
- protect all sellers against unfair claims
I'd ague that the policy is especially bad for (cons):
- buying any sort of vintage watch, mainstream or not
- opens the door for new loopholes and scammers that can figure out how to get around some of the authenticators and make returns especially more difficult.
Overall I think it is mildly good as a whole, but buyers need to be especially careful with the added false confidence provided by the program. I think this benefits sellers more than buyers.
- Posts
- 1,615
- Likes
- 3,859
S.H.
·A thread popped up recently about warranty on vintage watches, transferrable or not, etc. IMHO, getting a watch trough an opaque vetting process like this one is a good and efficient way to f-ck up any kind of warranty because it requires opening the watch at least (who exactly will do this?). I also agree with @sgrossma 's point about loopholes and scamming. Redial galore, wrong parts for the ref, etc, will be "authenticated".
- Posts
- 6,649
- Likes
- 52,273
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,994
JwRosenthal
·The “brand certified” experts is where I have an issue- are there any UG or Longines experts still alive?? I’m not talking rebooted brand- how will they authenticate a Tri-Compax or Longines Super Compressor??
I brought my 1973 BMW 3.0cs to the dealer 15 years ago to buy parts. When I came out, there were 1/2 dozen techs standing around it and asked me to pop the hood. When I did, one of the younger ones looked quizzically at the engine and pointed at the carbs and asked “what are those?”....yeah, he was a trained “certified factory mechanic.
I brought my 1973 BMW 3.0cs to the dealer 15 years ago to buy parts. When I came out, there were 1/2 dozen techs standing around it and asked me to pop the hood. When I did, one of the younger ones looked quizzically at the engine and pointed at the carbs and asked “what are those?”....yeah, he was a trained “certified factory mechanic.
- Posts
- 2,315
- Likes
- 5,697
ndgal
·A couple of months before this "Authenticity" BS program was rolled in, I picked up an incredibly mint and untouched one-owner Speedmaster on eBay.
The watch was never opened since it left Bienne 50+ years ago, and the caseback was almost welded shut. (No movement pictures in the listing obviously). It took my watchmaker about 15 minutes and a lot of patience to carefully open the caseback without damaging it... I coudn't help but think what would have happened had this watch would have gotten to the hands of an "Authenticator".... 🤦
Sure enough, a few weeks ago I got my answer when I bought yet another dead mint Speedy on eBay, only to receive the watch with the case all dinged and dented up! (Looks like someone dropped it on the floor...). In order to get a refund from the seller, I had to send it to be re-authenticated on the return trip. I googled the shop by the shipping address I was provided (No store name was given by eBay). Sure enough, looks like your regular "Joe-Schmoe" neighborhood watchmaker shop that specializes in several other low-end brands (Baume & Mercier etc...) not even Omega. I guarantee they wouldn't know how to authenticate a vintage Speedy lume even if it hit them in the head...
This "Authentication" program might be good for modern pieces. But for vintage? No way Jose!
The watch was never opened since it left Bienne 50+ years ago, and the caseback was almost welded shut. (No movement pictures in the listing obviously). It took my watchmaker about 15 minutes and a lot of patience to carefully open the caseback without damaging it... I coudn't help but think what would have happened had this watch would have gotten to the hands of an "Authenticator".... 🤦
Sure enough, a few weeks ago I got my answer when I bought yet another dead mint Speedy on eBay, only to receive the watch with the case all dinged and dented up! (Looks like someone dropped it on the floor...). In order to get a refund from the seller, I had to send it to be re-authenticated on the return trip. I googled the shop by the shipping address I was provided (No store name was given by eBay). Sure enough, looks like your regular "Joe-Schmoe" neighborhood watchmaker shop that specializes in several other low-end brands (Baume & Mercier etc...) not even Omega. I guarantee they wouldn't know how to authenticate a vintage Speedy lume even if it hit them in the head...
This "Authentication" program might be good for modern pieces. But for vintage? No way Jose!
