Please consider donating to help offset our high running costs.
3. I'm all for intellectual debate to challenge what we believe to be true. There comes a point where evidence to the contrary may not be available and the provenance stands on it's own merit along with studied examination of all the other details, which the OP has provided. It's also a bit odd to think someone would engrave that on their caseback rather than something much more common, such as initials.
What you describe here is almost an "article of faith" more specifically: If it cannot be disproven...then it can be accepted as truth.
I can make a few assertions on any topic that cannot be disproven...I doubt I'll get a medal for being a truth holder.
On the "value" of engravings it is a personal taste thing. There are collectors that love engravings as they see them as part of the story of a watch....while others dislike engravings because....they're a little too personal a story. One mans engraving is another mans de-facing. It's like tattooes. Some love them (me) others don't (my mother)
One thing is for sure, the engraving does not make the watch any more authentic or any less authentic, it's just an interesting anecdotal factor and, clearly, a conversation starter.
I think the real point of this thread was for @Tony C. to give us a lesson in straw man fallacies. 😉
I think you’re talking about back when you were giving public shoulder massages to V. Putin based on your internet research and I dared suggest he’s got a bit of the baddy in him based on my ~decade of working with an arm of the Russian Federation?
Regarding "truth", this specific engraving and evidence presented of the overall condition and history is nonsensical imho... as related to casting an aspersion on the value and desirability of the 1016 subject at hand.
While I agree with you on personal taste, I also think it's in context to the whole of an item. For example I don't think any serious collector would turn down my 6536/1 because it has 3 initials engraved on it's caseback.
I’ve been troubled for a long time about Rolex engraving issues, particularly from the 60’s and early 70’s, as have many others. There are plenty of threads on TRF where various engravings are questioned, and for good reason.
There’s also no question but that there are plenty of Rolex watches where the engravings have been added or ‘reengraved’ by various people for legitimate and illegitimate reasons. This is not to suggest anything about the OP’s watch but just to explain that debates about Rolex engravings from this period are both justified and important, in my eyes at least, because I learn from all of them.
Well, why are people hand engraving unit-numbers, serial numbers, movement numbers, "to my first wife with love" etc. on the caseback or on the case itself?
I've seen pretty much every kind of engraving on pretty much every kind of watch... Why people do that? Don't know.
If you like I could engrave your watches with whatever engraving you like. I got pretty shaky hands - so I could guarantee you that "Rolex factory" look. 😉
probably not, unless they had an equal option without them 😀
Very nice watch indeed. Absolutely no doubt the engraving is original. See below for an almost NOS 5508 with the same engraving. I don't think the caseback engraving is any worse than lots of 'registered design' engravings between the lugs - the quality of those engravings is highly variable. Rolex just didn't care back in those days - watches were a tool to be used; they had no idea that people would be analysing parts in meticulous detail with macro photography 60 years later. Though I get the feeling some are just arguing for the sake of arguing...
https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080119/213
I would say the STAINLESS STEEL on the outer caseback was engraved ex-factory -- but still possibly by a Rolex authorized agent and/or retailer -- and was done upon import, probably to North America, due to the tariff schedule on solid steel watches vs. chrome top, silver, white gold, etc. Rolex did a lot of funny things just to save a couple of bucks on import duties back in the day (17j movements to America vs. 25j of the same calibers for Europe, for example) so I would bet that the notation relates to that. I've definitely seen this similar scratchy "hallmark" on the odd Rolex from late '50s/early '60s so I think it was just done briefly and somewhat randomly in response to some or other shifting import tariff schedule at the time. Also, one often sees an added "ACERO" (Steel) engraving on the back many original Serpico & Laino-retailed Rolex of the '50s & '60s. So there is certainly precedent for this being solely a retailer's add-on, which might explain the relative roughness of the engraving, as well as its rarity in the wild since it could be peculiar to just a few retailers who sold only a statistically small amount of Rolex (like S&L).
None that I'm aware of that surpass it, in level of complete condition.😀
if you had two identical watches one with and one without engraving which would you take?