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Does this make my butt look big?

  1. keepsonticking Jun 8, 2021

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    Most of us have been asked this sort of Chinese handcuffs question by a spouse or girlfriend. You know, the questions that require us to lie in order to spare the feelings of someone for whom we care. Lying is sometimes the only reasonable course to take.

    In a watch forum, it looks more like this: "I just got this 145.012 and am so excited to show everyone. Isn't the patina amazing? The indices match the hands perfectly, and the color is uniform....and...what do you all think about it?"

    Now, not even a veteran collector can be certain about new lum when it's done very well, at least not without being able to check the watch in hand, but most of the dial work being done is either TOO perfect or not perfect enough and can be identified with a good inspection. It is also unclear as to whether hands should or shouldn't match because on some watches, the lum ages similarly, and on others, the hands can age much differently. I tend to find original watches will have at least one hand missing at least some material. The sweep seconds hands on my old watches tends to lose its lum first. That is not to say one cannot find a 2915 with all original lum in the hands. (I have one that has survived intact.) My point is, perfect hands are often re lumed hands, and perfect, beautifully colored indices are often re lumed.

    Recently, I saw two Speedmasters posted with re lumed dials and hands. Sometimes the color of the patina is a giveaway, since in my experience, 145.012-67 and the 68 transitional dials do not take on that golden/orangy color seen on radium dials, but some dial artists do not know this, and they apply color that just isn't correct. (possibly at the direction of the owner) The method of painting and the thickness of material can also be a problem. Original lum was not generally applied with as much care and is often not thick, whereas many re lumed dials have too much lum applied. In the end, it's not always easy to spot new lum, since the best artisans are able to make their work look very much like factory work.

    I'm beating around the butt. My question is, how many of us have seen dials, hands, etc that have almost certainly been doctored in posts from members whose feelings we don't want to hurt so we chose to not mention the concern? If it's a relatively new member, like myself, veterans will likely point out the problems, but if the watch is the pride and joy of a longtime member or friend, would you tell them the truth? Do you? "Yes, Bob, those pants make your ass look huuuuuuge." Not likely.

    And the other situation I see is the collector with the beautiful 321 or early 861 Speedmaster with a nice case, dial, hands....but is sporting a bezel that I see lovingly described as "meteorite." In decades of Speedmaster owning, I never came upon a mismatch like that. If the bezel was destroyed, the case and other parts are probably also rough. Maybe these damaged bezels are repros that are being "aged" to cover the fact that they are not legit. No doubt that happens. Whatever the case, a beautiful watch deserves a bezel that matches, whether it's a service part or original. It's heartbreaking to see this one, and I know no one wants to point it out, but it SHOULD be pointed out. If a case with less than sharp edges can be shouted out again and again, a thrashed bezel should be addressed, too. I'd argue the bezel is much worse.

    So, when asked, do you give the answer that helps you get lucky, or do you tell the truth and sleep on the couch?
     
    Edited Jun 8, 2021
  2. abrod520 Jun 8, 2021

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    In the case of the messed up bezels, I can believe those - it's really not hard to scratch off some of the surface material. Decades of the kind of contact that would easily polish out of a plexi crystal until that part would be replaced, can easily look much worse on the bezels than on the cases IMO. Of course, chances are most cases have been polished once or twice, likely by those who've known what they were doing, so it's not terribly noticeable.

    As for the lume - well, lume degradation doesn't stop just because a collector has purchased a watch. Even today's "perfect patina" will become tomorrow's dog, and even an average relume job today is much more sympathetic to the natural aged appearance of the watch than it has been in the past. So while some may be deluding themselves that their relumed dials and hands may be original, it's not the value killer it once was, so there's no real harm in just playing along if you ask me.
     
  3. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jun 8, 2021

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    If someone goes to the trouble of asking what people think, they should expect honest answers IMO. I wouldn't randomly tell some the watch looks terrible, but if my opinion is asked, I'll give it honestly.

    My wife knows that if she asks the question, she'll get an honest answer. No sleeping on couches by anyone (other than the dogs) required.
     
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  4. airansun Seasons will pass you by Jun 8, 2021

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    Exactly. And I’ve assumed that this is the unspoken rule here, for the most part.

    The only time people have ‘shouted me out’ regarding one of my watches has been when I explicitly asked for critiques.

    Of course, sometimes someone’s incessant posturing about a watch can be enough to trigger that honest feedback.
     
  5. SkunkPrince Jun 8, 2021

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    Once told my ex-wife, "get those pants off, they make your ass look huge."

    Not why she was my ex, by the way.
     
  6. Evitzee Jun 8, 2021

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    Agree with prior posts, if ASKED for an opinion then they should get an honest opinion. Not snarky, but honest. But if someone just posts their pride and joy for others to see there is no need to start pointing out faults in the watch. One of the most uncomfortable things is when a newbie plows in and buys a used watch and then asks for opinions. It's awkward to tell him that there are serious issues with the watch which could have been avoided if he had asked before buying it.
     
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  7. JwRosenthal Jun 8, 2021

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    My Speedmaster took many hard knocks during my years with it, my bezel was dented and trashed, crystal was beyond polishing and the case showed its scars. My watchmaker touched up the case (I forgot to tell him not to) when he replaced the crystal and bezel with new factory service parts. If he had left the case looking rough I don’t think it would have looked right with the new bezel so although I’m not a fan of polishing/rebrushing, in this case it worked out.

    0C121BBF-B629-4F17-A185-4CA168E518D0.jpeg
    My lume is original, chunks of the indices are trying to migrate back to Switzerland, but that’s part of the charm for this era of Speedy. Some era’s aged better, some worse- environmental and damage issues aside, it all depends on the compounds and formulas the contractors were using and how they were applied.

    Like any situation in life, unsolicited advise (criticism) is often unwelcome. If asked, I would answer honestly (but kindly) as I would expect anyone else. But if you are going to opine on someone watch- make damn sure you know what you are taking about.
     
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  8. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Jun 8, 2021

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    Should the need ever arise, surely she would benefit from some impartial opinions, especially given that you spend so much of your time looking at tiny things.

    So save some good photos. :rolleyes:
     
    Edited Jun 8, 2021
  9. Dan S Jun 8, 2021

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    In our house, the comments are typically more along the lines of, "Great pants ... they make your butt look bigger." :)
     
    Edited Jun 8, 2021
    Rochete, pdxleaf, ngo516 and 5 others like this.
  10. Walrus Jun 8, 2021

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    Is it acceptable to say “Chinese handcuffs”
     
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  11. JwRosenthal Jun 8, 2021

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    I gather you are a member of the no-ass club as well. :thumbsdown:
     
  12. Paedipod Jun 8, 2021

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    always good to know that somebody has actually done this. And survived
     
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  13. SoyuzPilot Jun 8, 2021

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    In our house, the standard response is "Well, it's got nothing to do with the pants, has it?". :cool:
     
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  14. wagudc Jun 8, 2021

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    There is no mention of racial concerns on the Wikipedia article, and usually this would get cited. I don't think "Chiinese" is used in a derogatory way here, but rather to indicate the origin of the toy. They are made of bamboo, and quite likely invented by a Chinese person.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_finger_trap
     
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  15. Walrus Jun 8, 2021

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    Thank you
     
  16. Jkbenn02 Jun 8, 2021

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    Upload some good photos
     
  17. wagudc Jun 8, 2021

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    Here you go:
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Professor Jun 8, 2021

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    Here yah go.
     
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  19. SkunkPrince Jun 8, 2021

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    I said it before she had a chance to ask. In truth, while she was a large-framed woman, she wasn't "fat", and the pants truly did not fit well. The next pair she tried fit a whole lot better and I told her so.
     
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  20. pdxleaf Jun 8, 2021

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    Click bait...

    Easier to answer when the asker is not related and on the internet. Seriously though, still needs sensitivity. A rule of thumb is for every negative you should say 4 or 5 positives.

    It doesn't help someone to let them continue uninformed, but they won't hear it if said without some compassion. "Piece of shit" is not the same as "I've seen better", even if they are both a piece of shit.

    As far as pants go, the correct answer is "your butt looks Phat!!!"
     
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