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Do we really have a "copyright" on pics we post?

dialstatic
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Here in the EU, copyright attaches automatically to any work of writing or art a natural person produces. Your class notes, drawings in the margins, the photos you take - they're all copyrighted and the holder is you.

Now documenting, asserting, transferring that copyright (etc.) - and how other people may or may not use it - is another matter. But yes, if you take a picture of your watch and post it here, it's copyrighted (it even was before you posted it).
Edited:
 
ICONO
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Syrte Syrte
He is copying everything but the watch. He took the background, the caption and title, the typeface, the position of the watch on the picture.
If that’s not copyright infringement I don’t know what is.

Sorry…Syrte…This is not Copyright infringement…simply creatively lazy, and grossly derivative…

I have lost count of the number of times, my own ( similar ) style, has been directly copied…by eBay sellers

It is copied…because it works…and imitation is a form of flattery

Theoretically, whoever first actually set the hands on a watch, to create a ‘smiley face’. …’ten past ten’ or ‘ten to two’ …has personal copyright in that presentation

However it is now universally used, by every Man and his dog …
 
Foo2rama
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dialstatic dialstatic
Here in the EU, copyright attaches automatically to anything work of writing or art a natural person produces. Your class notes, drawings in the margins, the photos you take - they're all copyrighted and the holder is you.

Now documenting, asserting, transferring that copyright (etc.) - and how other people may or may not use it - is another matter. But yes, if you take a picture of your watch and post it here, it's copyrighted (it even was before you posted it).
Yes, but but that does not mean there are legal uses of your works you cannot stop.
 
dialstatic
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
Yes, but but that does not mean there are legal uses of your works you cannot stop.

Wait, I'm a little confused - maybe because English isn't my first language and because I suck at double denials 😁

Right now, I'm basically reading your statement as "you can always stop uses of your work". Don't you mean to say that you can't always stop uses of your work (i.e. not all uses of your work are illegal per sé)? Because in that case, I agree: it can definitely matter what/where/why/how you publish (strictly also 'when', but mostly if it was more than 95 years ago).

Again, could be reading it wrong. If so, sorry for the confusion 😟
 
Foo2rama
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dialstatic dialstatic
Wait, I'm a little confused - maybe because English isn't my first language and because I suck at double denials 😁

Right now, I'm basically reading your statement as "you can always stop uses of your work". Don't you mean to say that you can't always stop uses of your work (i.e. not all uses of your work are illegal per sé)? Because in that case, I agree: it can definitely matter what/where/why/how you publish (strictly also 'when', but mostly if it was more than 95 years ago).

Again, could be reading it wrong. If so, sorry for the confusion 😟

Because it is confusing.

Example I Take a picture and post my Sinn 903 on Instagram. Someone takes that picture and includes it in a forum post detailing the history and changes during production of that watch. That’s ok due to fair use.

Someone takes that picture and puts it in a book of pretty flight watches and sell the book, that would not be OK.


Now going back to the first example... I could contact the forum or the forum host and file a DMCA takedown request which they will most likely honor and remove the picture. As if I fight it it will cause more headaches for the forum owner. If it went to court I would most likely not win and the picture could stay up.

The problem is that the whole issue is fuzzy... everything is a case by case decision.

Example... I will never post a picture of a famous speedmaster book’s pages on the forum. I believe that it impinges on their right to profit from their work and it is not covered under fair use. In theory I think they should not allow it due to future issues and defending of a copyright. What there is no question of, is that I can directly quote them with citation and say what they say in the book.

End result is the same, information directly from the book is posted on a forum, but one is infringement under my understanding and the other would never be considered infringement.
 
Syrte
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Some people post excerpts of certain books. Not entire pages necessarily, but snipets or pictures, in order to buttress certain discussions.
I may have done it myself once, in a discussion of whether certain logos are found on a certain brand of watches— and I posted a picture of one watch from the book that bore that specific logo. 😵‍💫
I guess that could be seen as depriving the author of some revenue? Or is a small excerpt considered okay?
 
dialstatic
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
What there is no question of, is that I can directly quote them with citation and say what they say in the book.

True, such matters are confusing and vague. Certainly if you also add plagiarism into the mix (...as if it weren't complicated enough already ;-). Many of my students assume that it's only plagiarism to use unattributed quotes, while the fact of the matter is that if a paper is composed of too many quotes or too long ones, it can still be plagiarism even if they're correctly cited.
 
Syrte
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dialstatic dialstatic
True, such matters are confusing and vague. Certainly if you also add plagiarism into the mix (...as if it weren't complicated enough already ;-). Many of my students assume that it's only plagiarism to use unattributed quotes, while the fact of the matter is that if a paper is composed of too many quotes or too long ones, it can still be plagiarism even if they're correctly cited.
Certainly the watch world - whether it’s forums or even supposedly legit blogs or online magazines - is plagued by the constant rehashing and pilfering of other people’s research without proper credit or attribution. I’m not sure if it must be a direct cut and paste to rise to the level of plagiarism, but they certainly would not fly in a highly rigourous and competitive environment like academia or the scientific world.
Edited:
 
dialstatic
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Syrte Syrte
Or is a small excerpt considered okay?

I guess it's typically considered okay. It's sort of like what @Foo2rama said: no-one typically takes these small things to court, and if they did it's highly uncertain how the issue would be decided because of all the vagueness. I found this a particularly interesting case concerning fair use: https://www.dpreview.com/news/26272...aphers-rights-on-fair-use-online-image-thefts

The decision was (in my opinion justly) reversed in the Court of Appeal, but it's telling that an earlier judge allowed this commercial company to use a (copyrighted) photo on their website without paying the photographer. I wanted to quote relevant portions of the article here, but I scared myself out of it 😀 The reasoning for initially allowing it is interesting.
 
Foo2rama
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dialstatic dialstatic
I guess it's typically considered okay. It's sort of like what @Foo2rama said: no-one typically takes these small things to court, and if they did it's highly uncertain how the issue would be decided because of all the vagueness. I found this a particularly interesting case concerning fair use: https://www.dpreview.com/news/26272...aphers-rights-on-fair-use-online-image-thefts

The decision was (in my opinion justly) reversed in the Court of Appeal, but it's telling that an earlier judge allowed this commercial company to use a (copyrighted) photo on their website without paying the photographer. I wanted to quote relevant portions of the article here, but I scared myself out of it 😀 The reasoning for initially allowing it is interesting.

Yet another wrinkle lol. Letter of the law vs intent of the law.
 
Syrte
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Incredibly ironic, as we’re having this conversation I have become the target! yesterday I posted on Instagram my RAF watch (also posted on WRUW) here, with a nice caption which always takes a little bit of thought.

As I wake up I find there’s an account whose only activity is to post other people’s watches, including the comments, but only crediting the photo in minuscule fashion at the bottom.

However, edit and update, the good news is that the account in question modified their post to clarify the credit. It is comforting to see indeed people behaving with courtesy. Therefore, I am removing the pics initially attached to this post.
Edited:
 
sdre
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Man the jargon just flew over my bead, thank god I am not smart enough to do law!

That said @Syrte why don't you do alittle watermark at a corner of your picture so as to protect your pictures?

I know it sounds ABIT commercialised but it could save you all the trouble
 
Syrte
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sdre sdre
Man the jargon just flew over my bead, thank god I am not smart enough to do law!

That said @Syrte why don't you do alittle watermark at a corner of your picture so as to protect your pictures?

I know it sounds ABIT commercialised but it could save you all the trouble
Thanks for the suggestion, I have done that in the past but haven’t found the clear watermark style I’d like to use.... need to keep looking ....
 
sdre
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Syrte Syrte
Thanks for the suggestion, I have done that in the past but haven’t found the clear watermark style I’d like to use.... need to keep looking ....
You could try to use a logo maker and I can help photoshop it for you 😀 Lemme know if u need ideas!
 
Woops
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As an aside, there are distinguished members of this forum who have watermarked their pictures for as long as I have been lurking. The standing of these collectors means that, in addition to all the legalese outlined above, such watermarks additionally serve as a sort of 'seal of authenticity' on the references photographed. This is particularly helpful when using Google Images to establish a pile of 'correct' examples of any given watch and an established OF guru's name pops up in the bottom right corner of one picture in the stack.
 
Syrte
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sdre sdre
You could try to use a logo maker and I can help photoshop it for you 😀 Lemme know if u need ideas!
That is very kind, thank you so much 👍
 
kkt
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Syrte Syrte
Some people post excerpts of certain books. Not entire pages necessarily, but snipets or pictures, in order to buttress certain discussions.
I may have done it myself once, in a discussion of whether certain logos are found on a certain brand of watches— and I posted a picture of one watch from the book that bore that specific logo. 😵‍💫
I guess that could be seen as depriving the author of some revenue? Or is a small excerpt considered okay?

My understanding is that brief passages quoted with attribution to support a point can be fair use and require no payment or permission in advance. A few paragraphs is okay, 1-5 pages is a gray area, more than 5 is probably not fair use. But it also depends what fraction of the entire work it represents. If you quote an entire two-page poem, that's probably not fair use. But 2 pages out of a 200 page book probably are. There's a lot of "probablies" here because it's outside the nice clean definitions of statute and instead running into caselaw opinions of various judges. It also depends on other factors: Are you ruining the market for the book? Is the book still in print? If not, there's no market to ruin. Are you distributing your quote to the entire internet? Then you have to be more careful about how much of the work you quote. But if you distribute photocopies to your class of 5 students it's less of a problem. But if you are teaching a class of 200 and it's the only class in that subfield and you distribute the same quotes every semester for years, that might be a problem. Also, if you're charging more than your actual costs that's a problem too. Can the copyright holder even be located? Copyright lasts a long time and it's pretty common for a book to be in copyright long after the author is retired or deceased and the publisher out of business. That's a factor in favor of allowing copying. These are from academic libraries briefings about fair use as applied to what instructors and libraries can do in the United States.
 
kkt
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dialstatic dialstatic
True, such matters are confusing and vague. Certainly if you also add plagiarism into the mix (...as if it weren't complicated enough already ;-). Many of my students assume that it's only plagiarism to use unattributed quotes, while the fact of the matter is that if a paper is composed of too many quotes or too long ones, it can still be plagiarism even if they're correctly cited.

I tend to agree with your students here. If the paper is composed of mostly quotes, it's a bad paper because of insufficient creative thought, not because of plagiarism. To me, plagiarism is about not giving credit to the words either through not citing them or pretending as if they're your own, so either taking another author's published material or paying someone to write the paper for you anonymously.
 
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