Hello all,

As a Heuer maniac for a while, managed to stumble upon a 105.012-66 lately. After a few reading sessions to better inform myself I decided to jump on it, given its condition, what I thought of its originality and also the fact that is was being sold by a trusty watchmaker in Paris, who also serviced it.

Now I wanted to check if my conclusions actually match those of a more experienced Speedy collector.

The watch looks quite nice overall, the dial looks original (T Swiss Made T) and is in great condition with light patina in the markers.
The bezel, even though cracked on the 90, actually reveals itself as being original on the 70, with the diagonal dot.
Regarding the case, the inside marking means it's a CB one, something you still see on the lugs (not really noticeable in the photo though). It hasn't been over-polished, fortunately. Also I'm guessing the chrono levers have the right size, but I can't tell for sure about the crown.
The the 321 movement looked beautiful, having a 25.4xx.xxx serial. I read somewhere that the bible says this is within range...
Finally, the hands. No idea about the hour and minute ones, but clearly the chrono second is a service piece. Should I spend the extra 100$ trying to source a spear-shaped one?

Would love to know yours thoughts on what I got wrong.

Thanks!!

 

Hi Rodrigo,

very nice 105.012, looks quite original except for the lume on hands and dial, i would say dial and hands have been relumed, maybe the old Tritium was to far gone. But whoever did it managed to do quite a good job, i have seen worse.
For the large second hand you are right, it should have a spear shaped end.
Maybe more advanced collectors will add something too.
Great find

 

First impressions of this one it looks a very nice overall watch, well done! I agree the dial could of been relumed, retouched, and hands replaced. But I like the dial and case condition a lot. Enjoy it.

 

Looks nice generally. I like the look you got there.

Seconds chrono hand seems incorrect - should be spare tip & not an issue to many out there

Movement is oh so vital. For a cal 321 this is keen to know/see to really take a view, IMHO

dot over 90 important to me, so that dent would give me pause. But again, it may not be too difficult to source a good DON Bezel. I love my moonwatch only, but I could be the only one who hasn't bought into to diagonal dot 70 biz

: )

CB caseback .. forgive me as my eyes seem to be failing me here as, I'm not seeing the facet on the topside of the lugs clearly, so perhaps polished a bit? ---- I think the lugs like this





you got a good one i'd be happy with .. and the more experienced Guys will weigh in soon,

 

Thanks all for your input and compliments. Very much appreciated.

The crack on top of the 90 nearly broke my heart. I couldn't be sure if it was original or service and would be a deal breaker. However, with the watch in one hand and Speedmaster101.com in the other hand, I noticed that the 70 is also a nice little indicator, as in:
Up to 1969: Dot diagonal to the 70
1969 - 1978: Dot next to the 70
1978 - onwards: Dot below 70

As for the lugs, you are right. They seem a bit polished here and there, but whoever did it, knew this and if he did touch it, it wasn't too much.
Tricky to get in a pic... It's where the reflection changes drastically.

 

Another good indicator is the accent and the font of the word Tachymetre on the bezel.
The DON bezel have an accent in the word and the letters are smaller. The follow up bezel insert roughly after 69 have
the word written in large Letters and no accent on the first e. And the new ones have again an Accent over the è, but the
letters are smaller as on the DON.

 

RodrigoM, you certainly learned this right.

By the way .. The authors of two great resources (speedmaster101.com and Moonwatch Only) contribute here on OF (a great benefit)

 

Relumed dial
replaced hands
incorrect pushers, I think, photo hard to see.
polished case
damaged bezel


This is watch has really been worked over.

i am afraid I have seen many watches like this from dealers or watchmakers, especially in Paris. If this watch was very cheap, it's ok, but I bet it's not, as you said it's from Paris.

please don't take this personally, but if you had asked before buying I would have said don't buy it, so I don't know how to sound enthusiastic about your purchase now you have made it.

i hesitated before posting, but I thought you would prefer my honest opinion rather than trying to save your feelings.

we live and learn.

 

Well it's difficult with you only putting up
1 picture from 1 angle, but I''l give you my take.
Serial indicates a late '67 build.
I do not think the dial is re-lumed.
Early 250xxxxxx built watches exhibit
this heavy application of lume. And
the case has no lug facets that I can see.
Which makes me think the caseback was
possibly a remnant in the parts bin during
assembly at the factory. And for all intents, this is
a 145.012
Two of the hands were definitely replaced.
Hour hand may be original.

 

Following on from what pitpro said, Ive seen a few of these '66 models with the 'buttery' lume on watches that were highly likely to be original so the dial could be original. One would need more photos to get a better idea.

 

is that the same watch as in your first post? the bezel and lume look quite different.

 

Appreciate all the latest feedback, even if less positive.
More pics to come on the weekend, to try and get a better assessment from you.

Just out of curiosity, say the dial has been relumed but the case and pushers is indeed original and therefore a 105.012-66, as inscribed in the inner caseback, can you guys estimate a price range for this? Not sure if relevant, but it has just been serviced...

Thanks again!

 

If it's an original CB cased '66, the pushers are slightly shorter than those found on other models. As above, speedmaster101 is a great reference and highlights the differences for each model as well as a rather good price chart.

 

On the subject of lume, in this example it looks out of norm. I am quite prepared to accept that there was a small batch of dials that are original and look like this. I personally don't have one, but that just means I haven't been able to study the phenomenon closely.

For or me, given the choice, I will choose a watch without this wobbly lume. In fact I would accept several other things before accepting a wobbly lume. Price always being the factor here.

Weather or not this watch is relumed or not, the fact is that it is worth less than one with a clean lume.

which to be fair, is sort of what the OP is asking.

the thing that really bothers me, and this is from experience, is that buying a watch with several symptoms of "restoration", is unsatisfying. It also puts me on red alert for inside issues.


Buying an old speedmaster is not easy, it would by unusual for a novice to track down an example that would pass muster here, unless bought from an open forum member.

 

A few more pics taken today and a movement one taken last week, bit blurry though.

Regarding estimates, any thoughts then? Hard to see where this might fit in Speedmaster101's values.

Thanks again

 

Well the price chart on http://www.speedmaster101.com/price-chart/ Will give an answer.

it may not be the answer you like. while it is "running", there are questions over the originality. So I would be reducing the price from the running figure. But by how much? That's the big question.

and the fun of buying speedmasters......

 

As Spacefruit indicated, buying a watch with several symptoms of "restoration", is unsatisfying. It also puts me on red alert for inside issues.... For me, this is a challenge we're facing generally but it is part of the joy in searching for & finding a nice example!

So don't stop now, I'd say

 

When i look a this closeup i would definately say it has been relumed

 

the one on the right looks different especially the two dots at 12, they don´t look round they have a "peak"
and for example the one at 5, 7 and 2 have sloppy ends towards the center of the dial