Current state of the car market (US)

JwRosenthal · Apr 18, 2022

Archer
From a recent story I saw about transit, there are about 100 places in the world that currently don't charge directly for public transit. Personally, even though I don't have access to any, I would support this (with my taxes) as the way forward. Here in Canada it's already heavily subsidized, and fares don't cover the operating costs, so to me taking it all the way and making it free makes a ton of sense, at least for transport within a city.

This issue goes far beyond the surface level that has been talked about here. It all starts with smart planning, limiting sprawl (which is a money pit for municipalities generally and a financial burden on cities, that then create more sprawl to "grow out" of the problem), and increasing density through infilling.

Despite the poor local bus service, I am lucky enough to live in an area that has had commuter trains for a millennia. I drive 4 miles and park in a secure/patrolled free parking lot, I stand on the platform and board the train, go to sleep or read, and wake up in Washington. I then walk the 8 blocks to work and arrive feeling no stress from the commute. When I have had to drive in, it’s a grueling grind that leaves one aggravated and exhausted by the time you walk in the door.

bombaywalla · Apr 18, 2022

Archer
From a recent story I saw about transit, there are about 100 places in the world that currently don't charge directly for public transit. Personally, even though I don't have access to any, I would support this (with my taxes) as the way forward. Here in Canada it's already heavily subsidized, and fares don't cover the operating costs, so to me taking it all the way and making it free makes a ton of sense, at least for transport within a city.

This issue goes far beyond the surface level that has been talked about here. It all starts with smart planning, limiting sprawl (which is a money pit for municipalities generally and a financial burden on cities, that then create more sprawl to "grow out" of the problem), and increasing density through infilling.

@Archer , I like what you wrote but most of the time people with sense rarely have deep pockets like the crooked politicians who do not want to limit sprawl because it helps them retain power & everybody ends up for the worse.....😲

bombaywalla · Apr 18, 2022

JwRosenthal
Despite the poor local bus service, I am lucky enough to live in an area that has had commuter trains for a millennia. I drive 4 miles and park in a secure/patrolled free parking lot, I stand on the platform and board the train, go to sleep or read, and wake up in Washington. I then walk the 8 blocks to work and arrive feeling no stress from the commute. When I have had to drive in, it’s a grueling grind that leaves one aggravated and exhausted by the time you walk in the door.

you mean Wash DC, correct?
you wake up robbed or with all your possessions? 😁😁😜
indeed you are lucky.....

The Father · Apr 18, 2022

OF is great.

Walrus · Apr 18, 2022

Since this drifted off to power and infrastructure I find this stuff fascinating. It’s too soon to say this will be the way of the future but I like the idea. Tesla has the possibility of being such a major company in power in the years to come. I stress possible as I just don’t know how realistic all this is. I know other companies are working on similar things and I’m not very informed on this topic there are a couple people in my town who who have the Tesla solar generator I think it only gives them 24hrs of power (charged daily type of thing and the weather can hinder performance) but they can almost be completely off the grid. I wonder what the odds are of this being common place in our future.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/04/26/tesla-wants-to-make-every-home-a-distributed-power-plant/amp/

The Father · Apr 18, 2022

Have several stores with the B***K network. We reaped $16 once from the share of the profits. At one point had about 40 charging stations. Most fell into disrepair. My friends at B***K call every few months wanting to know if I would like a service contract for the charging units.
Ahhhh, no thanks. Have removed most to the scrap yard already. So obviously the B***K Network gurus don’t even know what they have.

The stock did spike up to $50 a share at one point. This was preposterous since it was a money pit. At $19.75 now, quick pile in at this bargain price.

Archer · Apr 18, 2022

Walrus
Since this drifted off to power and infrastructure I find this stuff fascinating. It’s too soon to say this will be the way of the future but I like the idea. Tesla has the possibility of being such a major company in power in the years to come. I stress possible as I just don’t know how realistic all this is. I know other companies are working on similar things and I’m not very informed on this topic there are a couple people in my town who who have the Tesla solar generator I think it only gives them 24hrs of power (charged daily type of thing and the weather can hinder performance) but they can almost be completely off the grid. I wonder what the odds are of this being common place in our future.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/04/26/tesla-wants-to-make-every-home-a-distributed-power-plant/amp/

Interesting. We have a lot of trees around us so not sure solar generation would be worthwhile, but battery storage is.

We have been considering a power backup of some sort for a while now. Initially I was looking at a natural gas powered generator that is fully automated. But the more I consider this some form of battery backup makes more sense. Not just as a backup for power outages, but it can be charged at off peak times from the grid, and then supplement power during peak times, allowing a load shift to reduce power costs overall.

Walrus · Apr 18, 2022

Archer
Interesting. We have a lot of trees around us so not sure solar generation would be worthwhile, but battery storage is.

We have been considering a power backup of some sort for a while now. Initially I was looking at a natural gas powered generator that is fully automated. But the more I consider this some form of battery backup makes more sense. Not just as a backup for power outages, but it can be charged at off peak times from the grid, and then supplement power during peak times, allowing a load shift to reduce power costs overall.

My understanding is Tesla was licensed to be a power supplier in Texas and Germany. It may just be parts of Germany I just read a small news snip it on it. I haven’t heard much how that side of Tesla is growing I wish I could tell you more but since I only know two people who have gone this route it’s really not a fair sample but they love it. I’m just interested if someday this will be common place the more you read about it the more interesting it gets I’m sure there are a host of negative opinions I am unaware of.

dsio · Apr 18, 2022

There’s a very big one in South Australia that’s worked pretty well down there thus far.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

pdxleaf · Apr 18, 2022

The idea for household energy storage didn't originate with Tesla, but like with many things, Musk is translating it into action.

Some earlier comments were about increasing generation. One way to do that is with reduced demand. You don't need to supply as much if the demand goes down. Energy efficient appliances and lights are one example. That's why there are incentives to buy efficient appliances. If people use less, the power generators need less capital to build.

Smart meters came into play so that the power company can reduce load during peak demand. If people are willing to allow the electric company to shut down their homes during certain hours, they can get cheaper rates overall. There are incentives also for people to charge their EVs at night when demand is lower and power companies still maintain spinning generators that need load.

EV cars were a concern initially, not just because they would need more electricity, but because the loads would be constantly moving. This lead to planners to not just think about EVs as loads but also as lots of micro generators. All these plugged in cars could be accessed for power at peak hours, which are during the day when people are working. If the people are working during the day, their cars are parked and their batteries are available. Why not tap into them for extra juice?

This is related to the household battery system. Used car batteries that have lost capacity for use in an EV could still be used in a household system. But not just used batteries, but batteries made by companies that make batteries for cars then have another outlet for sales. People have described Tesla not as a car producer but as a battery producer. The ability for homes to store electricity also means all those wind generators and solar can be stored.

Smart meters are making this work together as an integrated system. It's all pretty interesting and gives reason to hope for a better future. Trouble is there's a limited amount of time. It's great to see what Tesla has accomplished. There aren't enough EVs in homes yet to make some of the bigger plans a reality. But it's exciting for me to learn about what people are thinking about. There seems to be a great capacity for innovation that could achieve even more with a greater will.

Taddyangle · Apr 18, 2022

I went to a car show today here in SW Florida. Not a single electric car. Wide range of cool cars from the 50s to current day. I was surprised that 20% of the cars were Corvettes and a whole bunch of old guys complaining about how long it's taking to get off the wait list for the new Corvette. The new Corvette is a looker.

dsio · Apr 18, 2022

Taddyangle
I went to a car show today here in SW Florida. Not a single electric car. Wide range of cool cars from the 50s to current day. I was surprised that 20% of the cars were Corvettes and a whole bunch of old guys complaining about how long it's taking to get off the wait list for the new Corvette. The new Corvette is a looker.

It’s not bad, tried one out here a few months back since they’re being sold RHD in Australia now, some really annoying features that seemed a bit silly when the rest of the car especially the power train is so good, like the steering wheel being weird and unpleasant with a hand position that feels wrong and doesn’t align with anywhere to rest your arm, and is square, and feels bigger at the top, and the center console is a bit odd with the button strip but honestly 95% of my dislike of the car is due to that steering wheel being such an odd, uncomfortable, unpleasant, weird shaped thing and that’s how you connect with the car. 😒

I’m triggered by that steering wheel, Chevy needs to just make a normal round one, like a CTS-V wheel, slap a corvette badge over the Cadillac badge and bolt that in and its a winner.

RCINPHILL · Apr 19, 2022

dsio
It’s not bad, tried one out here a few months back since they’re being sold RHD in Australia now, some really annoying features that seemed a bit silly when the rest of the car especially the power train is so good, like the steering wheel being weird and unpleasant with a hand position that feels wrong and doesn’t align with anywhere to rest your arm, and is square, and feels bigger at the top, and the center console is a bit odd with the button strip but honestly 95% of my dislike of the car is due to that steering wheel being such an odd, uncomfortable, unpleasant, weird shaped thing and that’s how you connect with the car. 😒

I’m triggered by that steering wheel, Chevy needs to just make a normal round one, like a CTS-V wheel, slap a corvette badge over the Cadillac badge and bolt that in and its a winner.

I had a roadster for a short while but the profit was to good to pass up. Steering wheel was weird and the car was awesome.

bradurani · Apr 19, 2022

JwRosenthal
Despite the poor local bus service, I am lucky enough to live in an area that has had commuter trains for a millennia. I drive 4 miles and park in a secure/patrolled free parking lot, I stand on the platform and board the train, go to sleep or read, and wake up in Washington. I then walk the 8 blocks to work and arrive feeling no stress from the commute. When I have had to drive in, it’s a grueling grind that leaves one aggravated and exhausted by the time you walk in the door.

I really don't think trains have any part in the future of intra-city transportation. To state the obvious, they can only go where the tracks lead - a limited number of stops that aren't close to huge swaths of the city, especially residential areas. Looking way ahead, maybe 20 years or so out, self-driving will be a reality, and then road systems can carry a lot more cars on a lot fewer roads. Picture long trains of EVs self-driving nearly bumper-to-bumber at 80 mph communicating their every movement and observation to each other wirelessly to avoid collisions. Picture an omnipresent autonomous taxi network with an EV taxi waiting on every block, even in residential neighborhoods. Picture busy intersections with no stop lights, where two autonomous EVs going 50 mph communicating wirelessly with each other don't even slow down but rather make small adjustments to barely miss each other as they blow through the intersection. We'll have a lot fewer cars moving a lot more people much faster with fewer lanes. It will make trains seem ridiculous. Even if it's 30 years, that makes investment in light rail and other urban trains seem like a huge mistake.

JwRosenthal · Apr 19, 2022

bradurani
I really don't think trains have any part in the future of intra-city transportation. To state the obvious, they can only go where the tracks lead - a limited number of stops that aren't close to huge swaths of the city, especially residential areas. Looking way ahead, maybe 20 years or so out, self-driving will be a reality, and then road systems can carry a lot more cars on a lot fewer roads. Picture long trains of EVs self-driving nearly bumper-to-bumber at 80 mph communicating their every movement and observation to each other wirelessly to avoid collisions. Picture an omnipresent autonomous taxi network with an EV taxi waiting on every block, even in residential neighborhoods. Picture busy intersections with no stop lights, where two autonomous EVs going 50 mph communicating wirelessly with each other don't even slow down but rather make small adjustments to barely miss each other as they blow through the intersection. We'll have a lot fewer cars moving a lot more people much faster with fewer lanes. It will make trains seem ridiculous. Even if it's 30 years, that makes investment in light rail and other urban trains seem like a huge mistake.

Yeah, I’m picturing it, luckily I’ll be dead by then

gatorcpa · Apr 19, 2022

JwRosenthal
Yeah, I’m picturing it, luckily I’ll be dead by then

Me too. I’m still waiting for the flying cars they promised me in the 1960’s.
gatorcpa

140dave · Apr 19, 2022

gatorcpa
Me too. I’m still waiting for the flying cars they promised me in the 1960’s.
gatorcpa

Getting closer, these guys are just up the road from me here in Santa Cruz. More of a taxi to start…

Scarecrow Boat · Apr 19, 2022

gatorcpa
Me too. I’m still waiting for the flying cars they promised me in the 1960’s.
gatorcpa

140dave
Getting closer, these guys are just up the road from me here in Santa Cruz. More of a taxi to start…

The flying car was introduced in the 50’s via Aero Car

And again in 2013

And much more recently

Though, admittedly, not in the way Hollywood has predicted 😉

Mark020 · Apr 19, 2022

bradurani
I really don't think trains have any part in the future of intra-city transportation.

Well in Europe they do. Amsterdam-Paris is now 3 hours and a bit. By car at least 5 hours. By plane theorectically faster but than you ignore all the waiting times and the fact that you end up at CDG. Think in Spain the hi speed train is now the preferred option as well.

bradurani · Apr 19, 2022

Mark020
Well in Europe they do. Amsterdam-Paris is now 3 hours and a bit. By car at least 5 hours. By plane theorectically faster but than you ignore all the waiting times and the fact that you end up at CDG. Think in Spain the hi speed train is now the preferred option as well.

I was very careful to say intra-city

Current state of the car market (US)

JwRosenthal

bombaywalla

bombaywalla

The Father

Walrus

The Father

Archer

Walrus

dsio

pdxleaf

Taddyangle

dsio

RCINPHILL

bradurani

JwRosenthal

gatorcpa

140dave

Scarecrow Boat

Mark020

bradurani

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