- Posts
- 9,961
- Likes
- 47,598
Walrus
·Yes, they did.
GM was late to the party and has never been much good at making cars. Not sure what your point is, assuming you actually have one though.
Current state of the car market (US)
- Posts
- 30,594
- Likes
- 36,126
dsio
··Ash @ ΩFI’ve just been hearing the US car makers saying they will be all EV by such and such date I’m personally having difficulty believing if when you look at the true numbers.
ZF, Borg-Warner, Getrag and Aisling aren’t investing in new transmission and drivetrain components for ICE, Bosch, Siemens, and the other component makers aren’t investing in new tech for combustion engines.
The major brands make common platforms across large numbers of models, and those will be primarily electric platforms. If they’re willing to cobble together a petrol hybrid version with some 2 cylinder range extender in the frunk maybe you’ll get that, but aside from that you’ll have to keep buying effectively the same engines and cars you have today with nil improvement and ever increasing prices with the exception of edge case or commercial / industrial vehicles.
The how long, really might vary by a few years but if you’ve got your heart on keeping a petrol car long term (as I do) I’d suggest getting the one you want in the next few years and taking good care of it, as it’s likely to be as good as petrol will get.
- Posts
- 9,961
- Likes
- 47,598
Walrus
·How long it takes in the US is something that could vary a bit but even if it takes longer, it won’t be to your benefit. You won’t get new or better cars with ICE as the lead time on engines and engine tech is very long, and the investment has stopped in recent years. It’s not something Ford or GM can really fight either as they don’t make so much of the parts supply chain they depend on which we’ve seen in the last few years.
ZF, Borg-Warner, Getrag and Aisling aren’t investing in new transmission and drivetrain components for ICE, Bosch, Siemens, and the other component makers aren’t investing in new tech for combustion engines.
The major brands make common platforms across large numbers of models, and those will be primarily electric platforms. If they’re willing to cobble together a petrol hybrid version with some 2 cylinder range extender in the frunk maybe you’ll get that, but aside from that you’ll have to keep buying effectively the same engines and cars you have today with nil improvement and ever increasing prices with the exception of edge case or commercial / industrial vehicles.
The how long, really might vary by a few years but if you’ve got your heart on keeping a petrol car long term (as I do) I’d suggest getting the one you want in the next few years and taking good care of it, as it’s likely to be as good as petrol will get.
But yes my plan is to keep my ICE going as long as possible I personally love the idea of electric cars the braking system alone amazed me they very well maybe the future I’m just surprised the big three are so slow in production with all the talk we are hearing on the political side but innovation does not originate from politics.
- Posts
- 5,186
- Likes
- 18,039
pdxleaf
··So on and so on and scoobie doobie dooRav4prime seems to represent the best and worst of the current state of the market.
It's a great car, 42+ mile distance fully electric (that covers most daily urban driving), 300hp, all the safety features, awd, and an ICE for long distance. But there’s a waiting list or worse, first come first served with 15 people showing up within 10 minutes for a new delivery.
It's a great car, 42+ mile distance fully electric (that covers most daily urban driving), 300hp, all the safety features, awd, and an ICE for long distance. But there’s a waiting list or worse, first come first served with 15 people showing up within 10 minutes for a new delivery.
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,926
JwRosenthal
·How long it takes in the US is something that could vary a bit but even if it takes longer, it won’t be to your benefit. You won’t get new or better cars with ICE as the lead time on engines and engine tech is very long, and the investment has stopped in recent years. It’s not something Ford or GM can really fight either as they don’t make so much of the parts supply chain they depend on which we’ve seen in the last few years.
ZF, Borg-Warner, Getrag and Aisling aren’t investing in new transmission and drivetrain components for ICE, Bosch, Siemens, and the other component makers aren’t investing in new tech for combustion engines.
The major brands make common platforms across large numbers of models, and those will be primarily electric platforms. If they’re willing to cobble together a petrol hybrid version with some 2 cylinder range extender in the frunk maybe you’ll get that, but aside from that you’ll have to keep buying effectively the same engines and cars you have today with nil improvement and ever increasing prices with the exception of edge case or commercial / industrial vehicles.
The how long, really might vary by a few years but if you’ve got your heart on keeping a petrol car long term (as I do) I’d suggest getting the one you want in the next few years and taking good care of it, as it’s likely to be as good as petrol will get.
- Posts
- 2,163
- Likes
- 6,717
ATWG
·There are early indications that prices are starting to decline based on Carmax earnings last week. They mentioned beginnings of ‘demand destruction’ playing out, which is the same term the Fed has used in tapering down sizzling market demand.
I’m fine sitting on sideline for now and wait it out. I work from home and have access to public transportation, which is not as crowded atm. I sure as heck won’t succumb to subscribing to a waitlist and paying above MSRP. I’d rather ride my bike!!
I’m fine sitting on sideline for now and wait it out. I work from home and have access to public transportation, which is not as crowded atm. I sure as heck won’t succumb to subscribing to a waitlist and paying above MSRP. I’d rather ride my bike!!
Edited:
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,926
JwRosenthal
·There is early indications that prices are starting to decline based on Carmax earnings last week. They mentioned beginnings of ‘demand destruction’ playing out, which is the same term the Fed has used in tapering down sizzling market demand.
I’m fine sitting on sideline for now and wait it out. I work from home and have access to public transportation, which is not as crowded atm. I sure as heck won’t succumb to subscribing to a waitlist and paying above MSRP. I’d rather ride my bike!!
- Posts
- 9,961
- Likes
- 47,598
Walrus
·Rav4prime seems to represent the best and worst of the current state of the market.
It's a great car, 42+ mile distance fully electric (that covers most daily urban driving), 300hp, all the safety features, awd, and an ICE for long distance. But there’s a waiting list or worse, first come first served with 15 people showing up within 10 minutes for a new delivery.
https://www.toyota.com/rav4prime/?b...+four+prime&channel=aplab&source=a-app1&hl=en
- Posts
- 30,594
- Likes
- 36,126
dsio
··Ash @ ΩFI got confused when I saw you mention the 42 mile distance I had to look it up and ya I remember now I discussed this car with a few people and have seen a few locally.
https://www.toyota.com/rav4prime/?back=https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&safe=active&as_q=the+Ralph+four+prime&channel=aplab&source=a-app1&hl=en
- Posts
- 9,961
- Likes
- 47,598
Walrus
·While the PHEVs right now are often primarily ICE with some battery capacity and electric motors, that will be the key transition when they’re primarily electric with a range extender like the BMW i3 where the ICE recharges the battery only and doesn’t power drive wheels. So you can still fill it up and go on longer journeys with gas when needed but you’re still effectively driving an EV. Given how efficient diesel electric powertrains are at fixed rpm I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of those come out of Europe especially.
- Posts
- 2,653
- Likes
- 14,684
The Father
·Have a group of Rivian dedicated EV charging stations being installed at a station. The build out started in July of 2021 has ground to a halt since there are none on the road to charge. Have 5 locations with the Tesla setups, usually average around 100 charges a day.
Quick charge EV stations need to be universal and not brand specific. Elon will cash in some day with his Tesla network with sale to the Feds. Probably need another 100,000 minimum of the quick charge multi outlet EV sites, $25 to $50 billion. This is chump change in todays budgets.
Back to topic, my youngest bought a Ford F-150 a few months. Checked internet ads, had a ridiculous low price. Went to dealer quickly and the sticker had the “market adjustment” added to sticker. He showed them the add and the sales force blathered some about the necessity of market adjustment. Since he is smarter than the average bear he recorded the explanation and told the sales force this sounds like a story for News 5 on Your Side and the Attorney General. He received the ridiculous price, news and government would eat that story up about gouging business.
Quick charge EV stations need to be universal and not brand specific. Elon will cash in some day with his Tesla network with sale to the Feds. Probably need another 100,000 minimum of the quick charge multi outlet EV sites, $25 to $50 billion. This is chump change in todays budgets.
Back to topic, my youngest bought a Ford F-150 a few months. Checked internet ads, had a ridiculous low price. Went to dealer quickly and the sticker had the “market adjustment” added to sticker. He showed them the add and the sales force blathered some about the necessity of market adjustment. Since he is smarter than the average bear he recorded the explanation and told the sales force this sounds like a story for News 5 on Your Side and the Attorney General. He received the ridiculous price, news and government would eat that story up about gouging business.
- Posts
- 2,718
- Likes
- 5,540
kingsrider
·16K for a fully restored 1962 VW with a new motor is looking like a bargain now.
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,926
JwRosenthal
·16K for a fully restored 1962 VW with a new motor is looking like a bargain now.
- Posts
- 1,060
- Likes
- 5,783
Twocats
··Married... with childrenIt always amazes me how European cars can be purchased new in the USA much cheaper than the exact same model over here. We also pay a great deal more for American made cars here in Europe, the absolute cheapest new Corvette on autoscout24.com starts at 88,000 euros all the way up to fantasy pricing.
I was in my local VW dealership in February this year for a problem with my California. While they were troubleshooting it I walked the showroom floor and took a fancy to a VW Touareg 3.0 tdi. The car was already marked with a 15% discount from list price and the salesperson explained that he was offered 20 units from VW so he took the deal and priced the car to sell. In 2019 at the exact same dealership I asked them to trade my wife's 2017 Audi Q7 and they offered me 35,000 euros for it. The very same Q7 almost three years older and an additional 50000km was taken in exchange against the Touareg for 42,000. Thats 7,000 euros more three years later which sounds like madness to me, I got a great deal in my opinion and I pity the poor fella overpaying for a car I would have taken 28,000 for.
I was in my local VW dealership in February this year for a problem with my California. While they were troubleshooting it I walked the showroom floor and took a fancy to a VW Touareg 3.0 tdi. The car was already marked with a 15% discount from list price and the salesperson explained that he was offered 20 units from VW so he took the deal and priced the car to sell. In 2019 at the exact same dealership I asked them to trade my wife's 2017 Audi Q7 and they offered me 35,000 euros for it. The very same Q7 almost three years older and an additional 50000km was taken in exchange against the Touareg for 42,000. Thats 7,000 euros more three years later which sounds like madness to me, I got a great deal in my opinion and I pity the poor fella overpaying for a car I would have taken 28,000 for.
- Posts
- 27,806
- Likes
- 70,627
Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerBut this is even better Chevy who is spending billions to dethrone Tesla
In Q4 2021, GM delivered in the U.S. only 26 all-electric vehicles (down almost 100% year-over-year). The number includes 25 Chevrolet Bolt EV/Bolt EUV and 1 GMC Hummer EV Pickup (the first one delivered in December). We thought that more electric Hummer EVs would be delivered before the end of the year, but it was just this one symbolic unit.
But at least they are still selling millions of gas powered cars I’m sure they will have it all perfected in 20 years
GM's target is to be producing 1 million electric vehicles per year in North America by 2025. They are ramping things up substantially, often in plants with partners. The GM-Suzuki partner plant that is fairly close to me is switching over 100% to electric vehicle production by the end of this year, making delivery vehicles:
BrightDrop | Electric first to last mile delivery products (gobrightdrop.com)
I recall seeing a pair of images of I think NYC that were 10 years apart. In the first image it was all horse and buggies, and there was 1 car in the image. 10 years later, it was the exact reverse - 1 horse and everything else was cars. Not saying the change will happen that fast, but there's a critical mass that will get things moving a lot more quickly than they have so far. There are no doubt many challenges (materials, infrastructure, etc.) but this is coming and isn't going to be stopped.
Personally, we have probably bought our last ICE vehicles. When my wife's 2015 335 is due for replacement, it will likely be an EV that ends up in the garage. I'll keep my M2 for a long time, but it's just a weekend car anyways, and I already store it over the winter months so it gets only sporadic use.
- Posts
- 9,961
- Likes
- 47,598
Walrus
·GM's target is to be producing 1 million electric vehicles per year in North America by 2025. They are ramping things up substantially, often in plants with partners. The GM-Suzuki partner plant that is fairly close to me is switching over 100% to electric vehicle production by the end of this year, making delivery vehicles:
BrightDrop | Electric first to last mile delivery products (gobrightdrop.com)
I recall seeing a pair of images of I think NYC that were 10 years apart. In the first image it was all horse and buggies, and there was 1 car in the image. 10 years later, it was the exact reverse - 1 horse and everything else was cars. Not saying the change will happen that fast, but there's a critical mass that will get things moving a lot more quickly than they have so far. There are no doubt many challenges (materials, infrastructure, etc.) but this is coming and isn't going to be stopped.
Personally, we have probably bought our last ICE vehicles. When my wife's 2015 335 is due for replacement, it will likely be an EV that ends up in the garage. I'll keep my M2 for a long time, but it's just a weekend car anyways, and I already store it over the winter months so it gets only sporadic use.
- Posts
- 21,444
- Likes
- 48,680
Dan S
·2 things here.
All of Australia is not the same as the city. (260km each way towing a boat to a remote part of the Northern Territory is not EV doable)
I would like to have an EV, but I expect that it will a while before an EV can serve as my only vehicle. An important use case for me is to drive ~250 miles, with the last 5-10 miles off-road into the wilderness. And then be able to return after spending time in the wilderness on foot. So I will need a serious off-road capable vehicle with ~500 miles of range. I could possibly tolerate less range if high speed charging stations are routinely built in small mountain towns, but when I'm heading out or returning from a trip, it's really not plausible to take a break to wait for the vehicle to charge.
More likely, at some point I will go to two vehicles, keeping an off-road vehicle and adding a small in-town EV. But I'm resistant to the idea of owning two vehicles.
- Posts
- 2,290
- Likes
- 4,571
repoman
·I bought a 2013 Ram 1500 truck for one of my kids in March 2021 for $16,200 cash, I did put a little money into it... for various reasons, ended up selling it last month for $26,500. First time in my life a run-of-the-mill non-collector used car sold for vastly more than I bought it for.
It's good to be a seller of anything in this market, and in a position where you don't have to buy anything.
It's good to be a seller of anything in this market, and in a position where you don't have to buy anything.
Edited:
- Posts
- 30,594
- Likes
- 36,126
dsio
··Ash @ ΩFI’m not sayin it’s not going to happen but 26 vehicles sold in a quarter to a million in 3, four or five years seems like a stretch. I like GM and Ford actually I like a lot of car makers and hope they succeed I just personally have my doubts on the numbers they spit out but I’m more than happy to be proven wrong and the little of EV’s and hybrids I have experienced has left me nothing but impressed. I hope it all works out perfectly and all is wonderful.
Zee Germans are clearly moving fast and producing some really good EVs already like the Taycan, i4 and E-Tron line, the Koreans are doing some really good things at the economy end of the market, and the Chinese have effectively decided to give up trying to compete in ICE and fight for their place at the table in the EV space, some amazing EVs already available out of China now and the quality is very high.
The Japanese makers might actually be the ones that get most wrong footed by this transition, their plans are a lot more conservative than many of their peers and they already feel like they’re falling behind the Korean carmakers even now in the economy segment.
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,926
JwRosenthal
·I would like to have an EV, but I expect that it will a while before an EV can serve as my only vehicle. An important use case for me is to drive ~250 miles, with the last 5-10 miles off-road into the wilderness. And then be able to return after spending time in the wilderness on foot. So I will need a serious off-road capable vehicle with ~500 miles of range. I could possibly tolerate less range if high speed charging stations are routinely built in small mountain towns, but when I'm heading out or returning from a trip, it's really not plausible to take a break to wait for the vehicle to charge.
More likely, at some point I will go to two vehicles, keeping an off-road vehicle and adding a small in-town EV. But I'm resistant to the idea of owning two vehicles.
I’m not educated enough about EV to answer my own question, but has there been talk about a universal cell system that could be swapped out at any service station? Or you could carry multiple batteries instead of charging (like pumping gas), you just go in and swap your spent battery for a fresh one and back on the road- like you do with propane tanks.
Similar threads
- Posts
- 0
- Views
- 658
- Posts
- 6
- Views
- 2K
- Posts
- 14
- Views
- 3K
