Considering this 18k Cal. 564 Constellation

GuiltyGear · Nov 3, 2023

Hi all. I'm considering this real beauty of a watch, a 18k Constellation, reference 168.027 with a Cal. 564 currently listed for $4000. Have been drooling over these C shape Constellations of the 60s for quite some time now, so maybe I'll go all-in on an all gold now. Before I start making calculations if I should get it, I'd like to get your opinions on it authenticity and of course, what you think of the price.

The seller is someone local, so I'll be getting some discount (eBay fees and all that). In my eye, everything looks alright. The case doesn't seem polished; it still has the satin finish and corners look sharp. Dial and hands look fine. The back case does have a few light scratches and some marks. It's coming with a box (which I don't know if it's era correct) and a buckle, but he's not saying it's a 18k buckle so I guess it's just gold plated or maybe even a replica altogether.

Would you advise on me to buy this? Considering the condition and the price of course. Especially considering the hefty price.

Photos are of the seller and taken directly from the listing.

Andreas-am · Nov 3, 2023

A very beautiful constellation. The case appears unpolished and in good condition with only a few flaws. The dial and hands also look good. I think you can buy it without hesitation. But let's see what the experts here think.

However, I think the price is very high. The C-Shapes in 18k gold usually sell for a little under €2000 on eBay. In this great condition, it might be worth a little more, but I wouldn't pay any more.

Has the watch been serviced?

Many greetings from my two 😀.

Peemacgee · Nov 3, 2023

As @Andreas-am says, very nice watch with a few flaws.

It is a deluxe with gold dial but still very much too expensive.

The flaws means its not pristine, so doesn't deserve a significant premium but it does have a gold dial (deserves a small premium) and generally presents well.

If it is a solid 18k gold buckle you need to add at least a couple of hundred for that.

Excluding the buckle, possibly $1000-$1500 overpriced.
(for $3000 you should be able to get a mint version of an 18k C-case)

BTW the box is Omega and nice to have but isn't original for a Constellation.

GuiltyGear · Nov 3, 2023

Andreas-am
A very beautiful constellation. The case appears unpolished and in good condition with only a few flaws. The dial and hands also look good. I think you can buy it without hesitation. But let's see what the experts here think.

However, I think the price is very high. The C-Shapes in 18k gold usually sell for a little under €2000 on eBay. In this great condition, it might be worth a little more, but I wouldn't pay any more.

Has the watch been serviced?

Many greetings from my two 😀.

I agree that it's overpriced. At €2000 plus minus, it would have been a much easier purchase. He usually writes it in the description when a watch is serviced, but this one doesn't say, so I assume it's not been serviced.

Beautiful watches; I'm jealous. Both straps work great, but that light brown one looks so good to me. Does the one in the second picture have a flat or fluted bezel? It looks a little bit of both from the photo.

GuiltyGear · Nov 3, 2023

Peemacgee
As @Andreas-am says, very nice watch with a few flaws.

It is a deluxe with gold dial but still very much too expensive.

The flaws means its not pristine, so doesn't deserve a significant premium but it does have a gold dial (deserves a small premium) and generally presents well.

If it is a solid 18k gold buckle you need to add at least a couple of hundred for that.

Excluding the buckle, possibly $1000-$1500 overpriced.
(for $3000 you should be able to get a mint version of an 18k C-case)

BTW the box is Omega and nice to have but isn't original for a Constellation.

After taking a better look at eBay, he's certainly asking at least $1000 more. Not sure of the reasoning; maybe in his mind the box and the buckle (assuming it's 18k) are adding all that value, but it doesn't add up. Thanks for clarifying that the box isn't original.

Andreas-am · Nov 3, 2023

GuiltyGear
I agree that it's overpriced. At €2000 plus minus, it would have been a much easier purchase. He usually writes it in the description when a watch is serviced, but this one doesn't say, so I assume it's not been serviced.

Beautiful watches; I'm jealous. Both straps work great, but that light brown one looks so good to me. Does the one in the second picture have a flat or fluted bezel? It looks a little bit of both from the photo.

Thank you - the 2nd one has the flat bezel, which also has a slight structure. It is currently at the independent watchmaker and the movement is being overhauled, which also costs around €300, so you should factor that in when buying.

On this picture you can see the structure better:

Andreas-am · Nov 3, 2023

PS: I have just had a look at Chrono24, there are no decent C-Shape in gold under 2500€, there are some very good ones in Japan, there would probably be additional taxes / customs duties and then they are also too expensive. If I were you, I would contact the seller and make him a price proposal. He won't be able to sell it for 4000 USD and he might be willing to negotiate.

GuiltyGear · Nov 3, 2023

Andreas-am
Thank you - the 2nd one has the flat bezel, which also has a slight structure. It is currently at the independent watchmaker and the movement is being overhauled, which also costs around €300, so you should factor that in when buying.

On this picture you can see the structure better:

Beautiful. First time seeing such a bezel. Still I'd say I prefer the fluted one, but it's a very interesting varation.

Service fortunately here (Eastern Europe) doesn't cost too much. I may get away with €50. The downside is that I only know of one watchmaker to whom I would send my watches, and his waiting list is long enough. But guess that applies almost everywhere.

Dan S · Nov 3, 2023

People who are using eBay and C24 asking prices to do valuations are not taking the correct approach, unless you are deliberately trying to overestimate the value. The majority of asking prices on those platforms represent watches that have been sitting unsold for months, and can often be 50%-100% over fair market value. They are meaningless.

You would want to use actual sales prices from auctions, forum listings, etc.

GuiltyGear · Nov 3, 2023

Andreas-am
PS: I have just had a look at Chrono24, there are no decent C-Shape in gold under 2500€, there are some very good ones in Japan, there would probably be additional taxes / customs duties and then they are also too expensive. If I were you, I would contact the seller and make him a price proposal. He won't be able to sell it for 4000 USD and he might be willing to negotiate.

I can see a 1 or 2 in eBay sub-3000 not from Japan. Those from Japan I'm not even considering, as it's at least a 20% on top for customs duties. Then on C24 you see stuff in the 5000 range.

Will think of my approach, but I'm not very positive. My idea in buying locally would be to get a decent, below market price, so that if I decide to sell in the future, at least I'll get what I paid. Even if he offers it for €3000, I'm not even sure now if that's a decent price or not.

alalalalongines · Nov 3, 2023

I often see fine examples with or without fluted bezels offered for 2000chf.
You better wait for a better prized one. Save a search for 168.009 or 18k constellation.

GuiltyGear · Nov 3, 2023

A alalalalongines
I often see fine examples with or without fluted bezels offered for 2000chf.
You better wait for a better prized one. Save a search for 168.009 or 18k constellation.

From the little reading I've done, the 168.009 is the first version of the C-shape design, right? That would make it a more meaningful watch to have. Thing is that I really like fluted bezels, so guess having both that and the 168.027 is the perfect combo. The 027 is also in steel and looks really good too.

lehippi · Nov 3, 2023

Speaking from personal experience you will lose +/- 50% if you buy this at 4k and then want to sell (unless the vintage connie market suddenly explodes). If you want to be able to recoup your money, you would have to acquire it for no more than roughly 2500 USD (including service, etc.) The condition is very nice and it seems to be unpolished. Buckle isn't a genuine Omega gold buckle.

hoipolloi · Nov 3, 2023

L lehippi
Buckle isn't a genuine Omega gold buckle.

👍

Aroxx · Nov 3, 2023

For what it’s worth I’m almost $2k into my 168.017 in steel after a top notch service, new crystal and crown, and sourcing a 1040 bracelet.

GuiltyGear · Nov 3, 2023

L lehippi
Speaking from personal experience you will lose +/- 50% if you buy this at 4k and then want to sell (unless the vintage connie market suddenly explodes). If you want to be able to recoup your money, you would have to acquire it for no more than roughly 2500 USD (including service, etc.) The condition is very nice and it seems to be unpolished. Buckle isn't a genuine Omega gold buckle.

Totally agree. I'll be patient, something I'm still working on, and wait for something in the €2000-2500 max.

GuiltyGear · Nov 3, 2023

Aroxx
For what it’s worth I’m almost $2k into my 168.017 in steel after a top notch service, new crystal and crown, and sourcing a 1040 bracelet.

Worth it as it's stunning! Love that bracelet too. Is the 1040 associated with Constellations? Just wondering for future reference (and creating a saved search in eBay).

Aroxx · Nov 3, 2023

GuiltyGear
Worth it as it's stunning! Love that bracelet too. Is the 1040 associated with Constellations? Just wondering for future reference (and creating a saved search in eBay).

It’s the bracelet for C-case Constellations. Not really seen on other Constellations from what I’ve seen. Beads of rice bracelets are more common on older Connies.

Redondo444 · Nov 4, 2023

The watch as such is in good condition.

I have seen quite often now that sellers fit the dirt cheapest not original buckle to a very expensive watch which is the case here and which I never understand.

Andreas-am · Nov 4, 2023

Redondo444
The watch as such is in good condition.

I have seen quite often now that sellers fit the dirt cheapest not original buckle to a very expensive watch which is the case here and which I never understand.

I agree with you! I still think cheap neutral buckles are ok, but obviously fake buckle are worse, which makes me skeptical overall...

Considering this 18k Cal. 564 Constellation

GuiltyGear

Andreas-am

Peemacgee

GuiltyGear

GuiltyGear

Andreas-am

Andreas-am

GuiltyGear

Dan S

GuiltyGear

alalalalongines

GuiltyGear

lehippi

hoipolloi

Aroxx

GuiltyGear

GuiltyGear

Aroxx

Redondo444

Andreas-am

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