Considering a Mark II with Racing Dial and could use some guidance

Hello Mark II experts,
Trying to decide between a new Mark II and a vintage one. I am leaning towards an original one since I generally prefer vintage so I figured I would start here for guidance. I have conducted numerous searches and learned a lot but still have much more to learn. Probably easiest to just list questions so here goes.

1. I want to wear this regularly for a long time so serviceability needs to be addressed. Since it is an 861 am I right in thinking that most (if not all) movement parts are either still being made or a functionally equivalent 1861 part will be available?

2. Are there any case parts like gaskets, crystals, pushers ... that are either no longer available or cost crazy money if you need them? My vintage cars and guns always seemed to have one golden part that if it goes you better just find a donor so I figured I would ask.

3. Are there things I need to look for regarding service parts dials, hands etc that may have been changed which may improve the appearance but reduce the value to a collector and thus should reduce my asking price relative to a more correct example? Are aftermarket parts an issue?

4. Other than cases that have been refinished poorly (which from what I have seen is a large number of them) are there any other problems that are systemic?

5. Most of the bracelets I have seen are seriously stretched out. Can these be restored or is there a contemporary replacement that matches the watch well.

Thanks in advance for the help.

1. Concerning the movement no problem regarding serviceability, it basically the same as 1861 so you should be safe for the next few decades.

2. I'm pretty sure the crystal, inner bezel, gaskets & pushers are still available for watchmakers who have access to Omega OEM catalog. The service pusher or service bezel maybe are slightly different ? I'll let someone else answer on that.

3. You should look out for re-dials (not very common on MK2 I think) and service luminova dials/hands (not necessarily a no go but that would take value a bit down). I don't think fake parts is a common issue but maybe I'm wrong as it is a more specific racing dial.

4. I think you pointed out the major problem. A lot of cases lost there sunburst polish through the years. Otherwise you have to keep in mind that you might have to do a service even if the watch is in good cosmetic shape if the service history is unknown. But that's part of the game with all vintage watches.

5. There are a few guys that can restore bracelets, but I think a service reference for the MK II is still available (I'm not 100% sure however).

Hope that'll help. Some other members should be able to give you some better and more specific advices however.

I would buy vintage, for the character and the history. These are wearable everyday watches and you will not regret it.
Have a 1970 Mkii racing dial and it is a watch I would not part with voluntarily. It was a one owner watch, never serviced and with the original case finish. I wear my watches and am happy with some battle scars.
The Mkii has pretty much become my daily wearer. For many years I wore a ‘76 Moonwatch daily and the Mkii has replaced that.
Great looking watches, great daily wearers, not overly expensive. Am pretty sure all parts, including bracelet are still available from Omega.
I reckon find yourself the best original case, dial and hands you can and the mechanical side is all fixable.
Adam Lewis did the first service on mine and it was his suggestion not to refurb the case as it was obviously unpolished. There are small black marks on the sweep Chrono24 hand but, hey, part of the history of the watch.
Go vintage you will not regret it.
Cheers.
Tony

You don't mention your budget. I believe the second edition on used market are still well above the price of a vintage. Perhaps 30%?

But aside, maintenance will not be an issue.

Budget is kind of in process at the moment. The fact that it appears that vintage is cheaper than new even after service and sorting is definitely factoring into my decision. I am a daily wearer not a collector so I view prior wear as history as long as it doesn't look like it took a trip through a wood chipper. I will certainly be adding my own dings and dents so I neither need nor want to pay up for mint condition.

Thanks again for the great advice.

I really was trying to go vintage but the prices were high and the conditions were questionable. Just happened to find a deal on a new one that was too ridiculously good to pass up. It definitely isn't in the subtle category but I have to say I like it much more than I expected. Will still pick up a vintage Mark II once I happen across one but now I can wait for the best one I can find no matter how long it takes.

John

Back on the forum after some time away and casually lurking and headed straight for vintage watch talk. I've recently fallen back in love with the MKII racing dials again, I've owned many over the years, some with Luminova redials and others totally original.

In my humble opinion they are one of the most understated and undervalued Omega Speedmasters Professionals out there, whilst prices have risen steadily they have no tracked in relation to their traditional moonwatch brethren or even the quirkier Professionals like the Moonwatch LCD's.

Finding a good racing dial is not as easy as it used to be and prices have climbed but you can still find a good one for sub £2000 and a minter for sub £2500, which represents great value for money IMHO.

In relation to the longevity issues, plenty of places like STS carry a full compliment of spares and will for many many many years to come. There are also masters out there who can restore cases using lapping techniques and return the watches to being indistinguishable (other than by the eye of a true expert) from new. Again I refer to STS, their investment in laser welding technology and lapping equipment means they can work wonders.

I have a nice original and very very early last quarter 68/ first quarter 69 Racing dial MKII (and yes I've check the serial on it) with STS at the moment, I will post some before and after pics when it comes back. Its only gone in for a refinish of the case and correct hour/minute/centre second hand fitted but the results will be wonderful.

Interestingly crystals are still available but whats isn't massively widely known is that the MKII also had a DON bezel (so to speak) the original crystals (which have the bezel printed on them) where very different to the service replacements, the most distinguishable characteristics are the dot above 90 and the tachymetre, which is on the crystal edge as opposed to the centre.

This is my unrestored MKII Racing, STS carefully replaced the crystal for me (retaining the original DON one undamaged) and fitted a service replacement but other than that and a service it is untouched.



Probably worth mentioning is that the early iteration of the MKII tritium racing dial (early 69) faded more than the later versions, the first iteration can be distinguished by slightly thicker print font on the text and a very slightly different Omega symbol, these early dials faded more than the slightly later ones. As mentioned I have an early 69 and a very late 69/early 70 MKII racing and the dials are very different in vibrancy and colour.

In regards to the comments from others regarding the replacement dials, many people take a standard MKII and vagazzle it with a racing dial (9/10 Luminova), these look great but the service replacement dial does impact on the value as you can image.

Hope this helps

Cheers Tom

Great information there Tom!

Really happy with my MkII (not racing), something special about them and a bonus they’re cheaper than the equivalent year Moonwatch. Just waiting on an extract to come through, will probably get a service from STS later in the year, but leave crystal and case alone as they’re original, scratched and used but I like it that way.

Wise decision, can take time to find the right one, but enjoy the modern version in the meantime, I do look at the modern racing version and thing it could make a nice addition to compliment my vintage MkII.

Many thanks

If you can find a good one then it’s well worth leaving it alone, I’ve only replace the crystal on the pictured one to preserve the original.

The great news with the MKII is that you can return to case to being as new easily using someone like STS. The traditional moon watch is more complex and as such far harder to achieve the same results.

The usual tell tale sign of a lap on a MKII is the diameter of the lip around the crystal but with the use of laser welding even that can now be resolved.

Will post some pics of my other MKII (which has to be one of the earliest ones out there) once it’s back from spa treatment at STS!

Great write up Tom, and has me looking at my Mk II in a new more critical light. I have had at least 5 or 6 racing dials over the years, and I agree that they are incredibly good value. I had a quick flick through the photo album and found a few. This one refinished by Rocco before STS got the Lapping equipment.


This one which was done by STS and I sent the wrong hands to be fitted. Possibly and early version judging by the fade on the dial?



This watch is in my current collection, and is unrestored and I believe totally original. I am guessing this is the original crystal, I note it has curved backs to the 7 and a slight serf not present on the service item.


Cheers Simon