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Compur Colonial

scubisino
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Hi there!
Greetings from Caracas Venezuela.
I found an old post in this forum talking about an auction result for an Universal Geneve Compur Colonial.
A friend of the family just gave me this watch as a gift and I started to dig the web searching for information. The results just blow my mind!! I can't believe how rare is. Here is my Colonial Compur, enjoy guys!!!
Best regards.
Saverio Cubisino.
acostado.jpeg acostado.jpeg cerca.jpeg maquina.jpeg puesto.jpeg tapa2.jpeg tapa.jpeg
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Mark020
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Wow fantastic gift.... Still flabbergasted by the price of the other one in this thread btw
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Woops
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Absolutely outstanding. I think we call that 'making an entrance'! 😲
 
vujen
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Congrats for the crazy watch, Saverio (despite of the badly reprinted dial!)
 
Syrte
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Welcome to the forum, and what an amazing first post 👍

I don’t know enough about those watches to say if the dial was restored or not— but even if that’s the case your watch looks great, and it’s a rare and desirable watch.

I think we can all be grateful you took the trouble to post all of those pictures to leave a record of your watch.
 
scubisino
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bgrisso bgrisso
Hi Saverio,
welcome to the forum, and congratulations on this wonderful gift you have received.
By the other thread I assume you mean this one below.
Please note all the differences between the dials. Have you researched this, what are your thoughts?
https://omegaforums.net/threads/colonial-compur-auction-result.91063/
thanks, the dials are different, perhaps they are two different model, mine is 568771 and I can assure that the dial is 100% original. This watch belongs to a very good friend grandfather and when he died the watch was saved in a bank safety box until she gave it to me.
 
scubisino
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vujen vujen
Congrats for the crazy watch, Saverio (despite of the badly reprinted dial!)
How can you be so sure about the dial?
 
scubisino
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Syrte Syrte
Welcome to the forum, and what an amazing first post 👍

I don’t know enough about those watches to say if the dial was restored or not— but even if that’s the case your watch looks great, and it’s a rare and desirable watch.

I think we can all be grateful you took the trouble to post all of those pictures to leave a record of your watch.
The watch was stored in a bank safety box after the first and only owner died. No restoration at all was made. The watch is 100% original.
 
DirtyDozen12
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scubisino scubisino
thanks, the dials are different, perhaps they are two different model, mine is 568771 and I can assure that the dial is 100% original. This watch belongs to a very good friend grandfather and when he died the watch was saved in a bank safety box until she gave it to me.
There are countless details that betray the dial as not original and refinished. While there are, indeed, variations among original dials, they fall within certain bounds. The dial in your watch has many anomalous features, which are not consistent with original dials, and highly reminiscent of refinished dials. One such detail is the poorly executed telemeter scale, in which the numbers inconsistently come into contact with the seconds scale (see image below).

As a side note, this watch is from around 1934. Dials from this period (either by Stern Freres or Fluckiger) were highly prone to deterioration due to organic surface coatings. Even if this watch was placed in a safety deposit box in the 1950s, the dial could have already been refinished.

Given the rarity and desirability of the UG Colonial, the refinished dial is not an insurmountable issue. In time, an original dial that is close to correct could probably be sourced.

upload_2023-6-30_13-39-22.png
 
Mods
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Fantastic watch! It’s all about the case!
Wear it in good health and enjoy as is…or stick it in an auction and enjoy the cash and let someone else worry about sourcing a replacement dial 😀
 
Syrte
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scubisino scubisino
The watch was stored in a bank safety box after the first and only owner died. No restoration at all was made. The watch is 100% original.

Just to clarify, I never said your dial was refinished. My point was, I really don’t care. It’s a great watch, you’re very lucky to have it.

PS- gentlemen may I ask why we shd be having this discussion about the originality of this dial? No one asked for an assessment or valuation.
Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!

Here is a person who’s excited about an exciting watch, is posting detailed pictures as a token of gratitude for all the precious info he found here — and what does he get in return?
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DirtyDozen12
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Syrte Syrte
PS- gentlemen may I ask why we shd be having this discussion about the originality of this dial? No one asked for an assessment or valuation.
I do not have a good answer for why we should be having this discussion. You are right, no one asked so why bother. On the other hand, I see this watch forum as a place for discussion. Yes, there are many threads that are dedicated to solely sharing photos, but the general spirit is that of sharing information and conversing about watches. Given that the originality of a vintage watch dial is a major determining factor of its value and appeal to many collectors, it is often the elephant in the room when a redial is presented but not acknowledged.

I would add that a critical discussion of a watch's originality would, ideally, not be construed as some sort of jab at the owner. I like to think that myself, and many other collectors, are interested in learning and sharing what we have learned. Unfortunately, in too many instances, people seem to resist critical discussions as if they are being personally attacked. This is really to the detriment of everyone involved.
 
vujen
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1) You just need to see this in order to understand that dial was reprinted in the past.

Screenshot 2023-07-01 alle 00.20.38.png


2) this watch - as @DirtyDozen12 correctly said - was made in 1934-35 approximately. So I think that nobody can for sure know that the watch is untouched. It is not, as said, theoretically speaking a reprint can be made the day after the purchase.

3) This is not a big trouble, considering that the watch is very rare, and moreover that is a gift! Again, my congrats to the lucky owner.

4) I think that in a forum like this is always better to say things clearly. At some point in the future another person can search information about a similar watch, and I think it's always better to have clear informations about wrong or reprinted, restored parts.
 
Larry S
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Ladies and gents. Respect for DD, Vujen, Ben, Syrte .. Mists of time, Compur/Uni era not well documented, South America, customization, x Number of dial suppliers …ad infinitum. I am unwilling, for lack of objective data, to declare this rare piece a redial and I’ve stared at enough dials, participated in enough debates. Many aspects of this watch “feel” right to me. Personally I’d have it serviced and wear it proudly. It’s beautiful.
 
DirtyDozen12
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Larry S Larry S
Ladies and gents. Respect for DD, Vujen, Ben, Syrte .. Mists of time, Compur/Uni era not well documented, South America, customization, x Number of dial suppliers …ad infinitum. I am unwilling, for lack of objective data, to declare this rare piece a redial and I’ve stared at enough dials, participated in enough debates. Many aspects of this watch “feel” right to me. Personally I’d have it serviced and wear it proudly. It’s beautiful.
I appreciate your input, Larry. Still, based on the many dials that I have seen (though I am no UG expert), this one has too many anomalous features and a low quality of execution that must be explained. I have already highlighted an example of poor printing execution, which I do not recall seeing on comparable original dials. The next detail I will mention is the design of the sub-dials. Starting with the minute counter, have you seen other Compurs with upright (as opposed to radial) 15, 30, 45 printing? The vast majority of examples with 15, 30, 45 printing have the numbers radially oriented (see image below). As for the running seconds counter, have you seen other examples with 20, 40, 60 printing, as opposed to 15, 30, 45, 60 printing?

Source: https://mentawatches.com/product/universal-geneve-compur-30/
upload_2023-7-1_0-33-56.png
 
vujen
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Well but let's make it simpler: did you see any other colonial with not binary indexes in subdials? Remember this dial should be from 34-35.

Screenshot 2023-07-01 alle 10.54.25.png


Again, super congrats to the lucky owner! third time I say that 😁

To me, it's another reason to wear it without worring too much to ruin the dial!
 
Syrte
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vujen vujen
Well but let's make it simpler: did you see any other colonial with not binary indexes in subdials? Remember this dial should be from 34-35.



Again, super congrats to the lucky owner! third time I say that 😁

To me, it's another reason to wear it without worring too much to ruin the dial!

Well then, since the discussion apparently is running its course, let me jump into the fray, even though I only know about UG what I learned a long time ago from a couple of years of hunting for one (which I never bought):

1/ if the colonials are so rare, how can one ask “how many have you seen” to draw conclusions from a pattern? No number will be significant enough.

2/ As @LarryS hinted, we know there were huge variations in UG’s dial printing quality in the 1930s.

Can we say number overlaps and localized uneven printing are dispositive in a UG watch of that era?

For me what’s telling is that the edge of the subdials are completely sharp— and the texture of the concentric circles is clealy visible (albeit apparently worn in certain spots).
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