Check the Bonhams auction if you've had a watch stolen in the past decade

padders · Jun 26, 2019

So is that it, a hit and run defamation on Bonhams (but without any actual detail of wrongdoing), or do you intend to contribute to the wider forum? I am always extremely skeptical of single issue new posters who appear from nowhere with a grudge they wish to air. As already noted, nothing you have posted suggests Bonhams are doing anything out the ordinary in their handing of this. Perhaps you do have further info, perhaps you don't but who is to know? It may have been wiser to post about this when you had concrete info you could share, then some of the skepticism would have been avoided.

rasher · Jun 26, 2019

padders
So is that it, a hit and run defamation on Bonhams (but without any actual detail of wrongdoing), or do you intend to contribute to the wider forum? I am always extremely skeptical of single issue new posters who appear from nowhere with a grudge they wish to air. As already noted, nothing you have posted suggests Bonhams are doing anything out the ordinary in their handing of this. Perhaps you do have further info, perhaps you don't but who is to know? It may have been wiser to post about this when you had concrete info you could share, then some of the skepticism would have been avoided.

You are entitled to your opinion and thoughts.

I posted here about theft victims perusing the auction(s) in question at the suggestion of a fellow collector, since there are many vintage Omega pieces in the collection involved in the matter. Prior to the suggesstion, I was not even aware of the existence of this Omega-centric forum.

My collecting has been of a different sort, mostly grand complication Patek, AP, BP pieces, and the piece at hand was a minor piece. So no, other than answering any other questions in this thread, I probably won't be active here - I can't imagine much of my collection would have any interest to an Omega-centric forum.

JwRosenthal · Jun 26, 2019

I get the skepticism but see it from the perspective that @rasher discovered that his long lost watch just popped up in an auction among other highly collectible pieces and is letting the watch community know that we may want to check out the other listings to see if one of us had a stolen watch that may have ended up in the same collection (one rotten apple calls the whole bushel into question). I didn't get the impression he was bashing Bonham's, they just happen to be the auction house that got a hot piece in a larger lot.

padders · Jun 26, 2019

R rasher
You are entitled to your opinion and thoughts.

I posted here about theft victims perusing the auction(s) in question at the suggestion of a fellow collector, since there are many vintage Omega pieces in the collection involved in the matter. Prior to the suggesstion, I was not even aware of the existence of this Omega-centric forum.

My collecting has been of a different sort, mostly grand complication Patek, AP, BP pieces, and the piece at hand was a minor piece. So no, other than answering any other questions in this thread, I probably won't be active here - I can't imagine much of my collection would have any interest to an Omega-centric forum.

Well that's the thing isn't it, you haven't actually answered any questions. In fact I don't see where you state that the watch was originally yours, just some unsubstantiated claim. Lets try some questions.

1) Was the watch your property when stolen?
2) Did you receive an insurance payout for it?
3) If yes, then is the watch now the property of an insurance company?
4) Other than suspending the sale and holding onto the watch until legal title is established, what is it you are suggesting Bonhams have done that is somehow underhand?*

*I can see how this could be difficult to answer if proceedings are underway but if that was the case, saying nothing may have been better.

ps do you really think that suggesting that Patek et al are of no interest to mere Omega collectors will endear you to the wider readership here?

jsducote · Jun 26, 2019

JwRosenthal
If the watch was recovered and now the property of the insurance company, would the owner from whom it was stolen be given the option of buying it back?

Technically yes, but unless it's an exceedingly rare/valuable watch, the insurance company has probably already written off the loss. I would think that the former owner is the only one looking for it at this point and the watch would be returned to him. If the insurance company finds out about it, then they could take possession.

M'Bob · Jun 26, 2019

I read this thread with interest, as I am on the cusp of sending Bonhams a family heirloom to place in an auction. Generally, within the auction community, are they perceived positively, or do they have a history of sketchy behavior?

Foo2rama · Jun 26, 2019

M'Bob
I read this thread with interest, as I am on the cusp of sending Bonhams a family heirloom to place in an auction. Generally, within the auction community, are they perceived positively, or do they have a history of sketchy behavior?

Positively with the caveats of all large auction houses.

Periodically things are not as described but generally resolve when notified. But this applies to all of them.

M'Bob · Jun 26, 2019

Foo2rama
Positively with the caveats of all large auction houses.

Periodically things are not as described but generally resolve when notified. But this applies to all of them.

Much appreciated, thanks.

JwRosenthal · Jun 26, 2019

R rasher
You are entitled to your opinion and thoughts.

I posted here about theft victims perusing the auction(s) in question at the suggestion of a fellow collector, since there are many vintage Omega pieces in the collection involved in the matter. Prior to the suggesstion, I was not even aware of the existence of this Omega-centric forum.

My collecting has been of a different sort, mostly grand complication Patek, AP, BP pieces, and the piece at hand was a minor piece. So no, other than answering any other questions in this thread, I probably won't be active here - I can't imagine much of my collection would have any interest to an Omega-centric forum.

You know @rasher , I was typing my counterpoint to @padders very direct comments to you as I tend to always try to throw water on a fire and find the rationale in every arguement. I always try to see the positive in everybody even when my compatriots are crying fowl- my optimism to a fault I guess.
I appreciate your direct and honest attitude about your disinterest in our group as it doesn’t directly pertain to your collection- but I wonder if you honestly understand how conceited it sounds when you phrase it the way that you did. It was not only patronizing, but belittling and truly speaks to a very narrow world view. Many of the collectors here have watch collections that will blow your mind. Their appreciation for the brand common to this forum only speaks to their greater appreciation of horology at large.
If you spent a minute perusing the forum you would see there are sub-groups for other brands including those you mentioned as being of your interest. It’s a shame you have decided, before even taking the time to explore your environment, that this place is beneath your interests.

Thank you for starting this very intersting thread on the logistics of stolen property- it’s a valuable topic for us all to understand. Best of luck to you in your pursuit.

rasher · Jun 26, 2019

JwRosenthal
...I appreciate your direct and honest attitude about your disinterest in our group as it doesn’t directly pertain to your collection- but I wonder if you honestly understand how conceited it sounds when you phrase it the way that you did. It was not only patronizing, but belittling and truly speaks to a very narrow world view. Many of the collectors here have watch collections that will blow your mind. Their appreciation for the brand common to this forum only speaks to their greater appreciation of horology at large.
If you spent a minute perusing the forum you would see there are sub-groups for other brands including those you mentioned as being of your interest. It’s a shame you have decided, before even taking the time to explore your environment, that this place is beneath your interests. ...

I want to state, unequivocally, that was not the intent of my statement.

I am a huge fan of the brand, since when I was an eleven year old boy and my father gave me his late 60s speedmaster moonwatch. I cherished it, particularly since it had space exploration connotations, and area of unending fascination for me at the time. It started me on my journey of watch appreciation and collecting.

In the subsequent years, I added many Omega pieces to my collection, including the central tourbillon (IMO, and that of one of my watchmakers, every bit at the level of a Patek, et al.), a couple of marine chronometers, a couple of the ludicrously thin magique/mystique mystery watches, several of the original coaxial initial release including the pretty rare skeletonized versions, and of course many speedmasters.

So no, I don't in any way feel the brand, or its collectors, or any fora devoted to the brand such as this new-to-me forum is "beneath" me in any way. Any collector that knows me personally would tell you if anything, I'm the anti-snob: when the collecting craze was getting really nuts in the early 2000s and some real attitudes starting showing up at collector gatherings, I was the guy that showed up with a talking with moving mouth Mickey Mouse plastic watch strapped to my wrist, just to see the reactions.

I simply don't participate actively in the on-line watch community, and had stopped from a previously very active role over a decade ago, and have no plans to be active in any - I just find them a bit toxic in general.

I also genuinely thought in replying to the question that such non-Omega, non-sports pieces would be out of place here and not of any interest, just as I'd think showing up to a Chevy collector gathering with a Ford would seem a bit on-the-nose to me.

I am genuinely sorry that my statement came off the way it appears to have, the was absolutely no intent to malign the brand or its collectors.

R

CaptainWinsor · Jun 26, 2019

JwRosenthal said: ↑
On the contrary, this issue has come up with art stolen by the Nazi's during WWII and family's trying to regain possession from private collectors or museums....or native amarican art pillaged by grave robbers that are also currently in museums...or the Elgin Marbles.....

Foo2rama · Jun 26, 2019

Collects Marine Chronometers, and has a collection we wouldn’t care for...

Also if you took a second to peruse the forums you would see this is the least brand centric, brand centric forum of any type I’ve ever seen.

JwRosenthal · Jun 26, 2019

Thank you for the clarification. @rasher , we all suffer from foot-in-mouth disease occasionally, I have actually grown quite fond of the taste of my shoes.
Your feelings on the toxicity of online forums is felt by many here, in fact there are many of us that are refugees from other forums where the smug factor became too much to bear and some went postal on the collective- banned.
I have found this to be a far more democratic collective with an amazing weath of knowledge from professional watchmakers and dealers to novices excited to share their first piece- all are welcome.
I hope you decide to stick around and share some of your knowledge and experience- you may make a few friends in the process.

JwRosenthal · Jun 26, 2019

...now about those Marine Chronometers...we do love pictures.

ConElPueblo · Jun 27, 2019

Welcome aboard @rasher - many here would love to see some of your pieces 👍

You are not the first one to comment that they thought that this was purely an Omega enthusiasts page, so there is a fair bit of precedence..!