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Certina Chronomètre Question

ConElPueblo
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Chronometer-rated Certinas aren't that common and most seem to be quite dressy, many in either gold cap or solid gold cases. A number of 7221 produced in total is bandied about a lot, though I don't know if this is correct.

This one caught my eye:

s-l1600-7.jpg s-l1600-6.jpg s-l1600-8.jpg s-l1600-9.jpg



An attractive 36mm case and a lovely dial - but those lume plots? With those hands? A blank caseback is always a good sign 🤦

What do you think, is it a complete franken? Have the hands been replaced? Or is it correct with no lume on the hands 😀:screwloose:😀?

Hope for some insight from resident know-it-alls, including @Bill Sohne, @Skrotis and others..!
 
Tony C.
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Franken, I'd say. Wrong case, and possibly movement.
 
ConElPueblo
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Tony C. Tony C.
Franken, I'd say. Wrong case, and possibly movement.

Would a chronometer-rated movement be marked as such?

At the moment I'm leaning towards this being a franken of a chronometer movement from a melted-down golden case in a steel case.
 
STANDY
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Say that movement and dial was out of a gold case that was melted in the gold rush years ago.
 
ConElPueblo
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Just realised that the crown is the correct type for a gold cased chronometer. It's a franken, no doubt.

🙁
 
Tony C.
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Some (most?) of these had the case backs marked, also...

3.jpeg
 
Canuck
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This movement is a Kurth Freres/Certina, and IMO is correct, and I am leaning toward it being a correct case. I am going to say that it would not be possible for a donor case to be such a perfect fit.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&2&2uswk&Certina_25_651M

Image from the Ranfft archive.

I have two of these. Neither of mine are marked chronometer. One without the date, and the other with date. I don’t see the balance cock on the subject watch, but mine are both equipped with micrometer regulators, flat hairsprings (not Breguet with over coil). These are (IMO) a beautiful movement. I consider them to be on a par with many of the first line quality brands it was contemporary to. The esthetics and finish on all the components are as fine as I have seen on any of the top brands of the era. I opt for correct and original. I hope I don’t come off sounding contentious, but I like it!😀
 
Tony C.
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Canuck Canuck
This movement is a Kurth Freres/Certina, and IMO is correct, and I am leaning toward it being a correct case. I am going to say that it would not be possible for a donor case to be such a perfect fit.

I remain skeptical. Take a look at the cases shown here. They are different, albeit not significantly.

https://www.vintagecertinas.ch/en/chronometer-en/

Also, the crown and dial and hands are from a gold cased watch!
Edited:
 
Tony C.
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Canuck Canuck
I remain certain it is correct.

"certain"? lol! Please do show another example. Just one.

The case on the subject watch doesn't even have a serial number.

Here's the correct case back for the dial and hand-set, as found on Ranfft's site, and as seen on others:

1221058831-2.jpg
Edited:
 
Canuck
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Neither of my Certinas have a case serial number, and both have plain case backs. Both have the same moment as the subject watch (except one has no calendar). Let’s just say we agree to disagree!
 
ConElPueblo
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Tony C. Tony C.
"certain"? lol! Please do show another example. Just one.

The case on the subject watch doesn't even have a serial number.

Here's the correct case back for the dial and hand-set, as found on Ranfft's site, and as seen on others:

1221058831-2.jpg

After spending some time doing some rather basic research I am convinced it's a franken, no doubt in my mind. The missing lume on the hands, the crown that would fit the gold cased version of a chronometer-rated movement and the missing serial number on the back (which, according to vintagecertinas.ch, should match the movement number on chronometer-rated Certinas) and the fact that the model doesn't appear anywhere else are pretty strong arguments.

A lot of Certinas use what is basically the same movements, so I am not surprised to see this one fitting another case. Having looked at a number of DS' recently, movement and dial swaps are far, far from unheard of.

Thanks for all the feedback 😀
 
ConElPueblo
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Canuck Canuck
Neither of my Certinas have a case serial number, and both have plain case backs. Both have the same moment as the subject watch (except one has no calendar). Let’s just say we agree to disagree!

But a chronometer-rated Certina is supposed to have matching movement numbers. Are yours chronometer-rated too?
 
Canuck
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I only entered this discussion when an opinion was offered that this “possibly had a wrong movement”. I think i’ll bow out at this point.
 
Tony C.
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Canuck Canuck
Neither of my Certinas have a case serial number, and both have plain case backs. Both have the same moment as the subject watch (except one has no calendar). Let’s just say we agree to disagree!

Apples and oranges. We're talking about a chronometre. You have produced no evidence whatsoever to support the claim that the subject watch has an original case.
 
Bill Sohne
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Hi @ConElPueblo

Does the movement have a serial number ?? please rotate the rotor and see if you can find a number....


I would agree with you that it was re-cased.... it looks nice.... I would wear with pride...

I have one that was re-cased , poor job in comparison to yours!

and one that somehow they goofed on the serial number on the caseback to the movement, i think its off by a single digit!

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the movement...

best

bill

ConElPueblo ConElPueblo
Chronometer-rated Certinas aren't that common and most seem to be quite dressy, many in either gold cap or solid gold cases. A number of 7221 produced in total is bandied about a lot, though I don't know if this is correct.

This one caught my eye:

s-l1600-7.jpg s-l1600-6.jpg s-l1600-8.jpg s-l1600-9.jpg



An attractive 36mm case and a lovely dial - but those lume plots? With those hands? A blank caseback is always a good sign 🤦

What do you think, is it a complete franken? Have the hands been replaced? Or is it correct with no lume on the hands 😀:screwloose:😀?

Hope for some insight from resident know-it-alls, including @Bill Sohne, @Skrotis and others..!
Edited:
 
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