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Can anyone help with this vintage Patek calatrava?

  1. cchen Aug 7, 2023

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    Have been on the hunt for a while and looking for a calatrava. Came across this example in an upcoming auction but I can't find a reference that has a screwdown caseback with this hand configuration.

    The enamel signature is showing but the dial color looks odd, may have been washed?
    Case seems good, hallmark present, lugs look thick

    Thoughts?
     
    244005-7.jpg 244005-3.jpg 244005-4.jpg
  2. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Aug 7, 2023

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    If you are serious, you need to demand images of the inside of the case back (where the ref. # is located), and movement.

    The dial is likely fine. Images are often not well color corrected, and I would bet that the ones you have shown have too much orange saturation. If I am correct, it would mean that the dial is likely ivory, or cream colored.

    There is nothing about the watch – a true Calatrava – that appears incorrect.
     
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  3. cchen Aug 7, 2023

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    Thanks @Tony C. !
    Have asked the auction house but they don't feel comfortable opening the case back.
     
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  4. calalum Aug 7, 2023

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    I would pass. I once had a beautiful PP 2508 that I bought very right even though I did not see the movement first. When I took the watch for a service the watchmaker pointed out a missing movement piece (part of the swan neck regulator) that wasn't preventing the watch from running but was a potential issue. Patek quoted something like $2000 and a year to make the piece and service the watch. I was not able to source the piece despite looking for a while. [Based on some watch forum posts looking for the piece I ended up selling the watch as it was with full disclosure to a good buyer and made a big profit.] So surprises can be impactful.
     
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  5. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Aug 7, 2023

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    I would also pass, then. Especially with more expensive watches, one should minimally require good images of all of the important parts, unless the cost is low enough to warrant the associated risk of buying "blind".
     
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  6. Adam2941 Oct 2, 2023

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    The watch looks very nice, but there are others out there equally nice or nicer. Especially when buying high-end, the old adage "buy the seller, then the watch" (well, this is my variation) rings especially true. If you buy from a trusted and knowledgable seller, you might pay a little more (maybe), but you will not have to worry about parts missing, uncertainties about the dial, etc. A good seller will know these things and fully disclose, and if unforeseen problems arise, a good seller will take care of them.
     
  7. Fallout Boy Oct 2, 2023

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    blurry pictures of a high-end watch? :eek: ... no hall-marks shown?
    do they have experience, selling watches?
    my2cents
     
  8. Mark020 not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer Oct 2, 2023

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    It all depends on the price
     
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  9. Canuck Oct 2, 2023

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    Hallmark? Where? I don’t see it. Without getting an opinion on what is inside the case, I’d shy away if I were you. Unless the asking price is about scrap value.
     
  10. Fallout Boy Oct 2, 2023

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    Exactly! This was my concern. Would like to see more details......
     
    Edited Oct 2, 2023
  11. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Oct 2, 2023

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    hallmark.png
     
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  12. Canuck Oct 2, 2023

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    This is a screen shot from the vintage watch straps site which describes the standard mark one might expect on an 18-karat gold item produced in Switzerland. The image showing a stamping on the underside of a lug of the watch case is so poor that it is no help whatsoever determining what the mark might be.

    IMG_1806.jpeg
     
  13. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Oct 2, 2023

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    90% of case and lug hallmarks I've seen are usually unreadable without a microscope.
    I was pointing out that there is a hallmark there.
    The real detail will be shown on the inside of the caseback.

    Here are two quick ones on a vintage PP gold watch.

    Screenshot 2023-10-03 at 15.55.57.png Screenshot 2023-10-03 at 15.56.22.png
     
  14. mikeo1 Nov 8, 2023

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    If you cannot see and review the movement and inside the caseback-just walk away
     
  15. DTMwatch Nov 16, 2023

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    Another vote for walking away from this one: Too much risk.