Calling Our Omega Pocket Watch Experts

[gbesq]

I'm very comfortable assessing vintage Omega wristwatches, but I confess that I'm well out of my comfort zone when evaluating pocket watches. I have an opportunity to add this Omega pocket watch to my collection. All that I know at this point from my research is that it appears to be from the 1930s, the case is gold filled, and that the dial and hands appear to be original and in very good condition. The inside case back reference is 10300391. Can anyone tell me more and give me an approximate idea of what this should sell for? It runs, but I suspect that it will need a service. Thanks for any help that our pocket watch experts can provide.

Edited: Nov 19, 2023

 

[Canuck]

An “expert” doesn’t know everything, but he knows where to find information. I am not an “expert”, but there are some things that are quite evident (to me). Stamped into the pillar plate beneath the balance wheel is 37.5 which, according to the Ranfft website is the calibre for this model. The 17 (I suspect) refers to the diameter (17-ligne?). The movement has 17-jewels, a Breguet hairspring, a bi-metallic, temperature compensating balance wheel, and according to tables, was made circa 1939. I’d call the case style art deco, the hands have been called “hypodermic” or “syringe”. It appears to me to be in exquisite condition, and a worthwhile addition to a watch collection. As to what it should sell for? I don’t think an “expert” would be required to give you an answer to that question. The market for pocket watches right now is not that great. Not more than $300.00 in my opinion, but if you can grab it for less, jump on it. Beyond that, what you might offer would depend on how much you love it. I love it, but it is not what I personally collect. The last pocket watch I bought was an 18-size, 1877 model Waltham in an exquisite hunter case, perfect enamel dial, movement requiring some work. I paid $50.00 (Cdn.) for it!

 

[gbesq]

Canuck

An “expert” doesn’t know everything, but he knows where to find information. I am not an “expert”, but there are some things that are quite evident (to me). Stamped into the pillar plate beneath the balance wheel is 37.5 which, according to the Ranfft website is the calibre for this model. The 17 (I suspect) refers to the diameter (17-ligne?). The movement has 17-jewels, a Breguet hairspring, a bi-metallic, temperature compensating balance wheel, and according to tables, was made circa 1939. I’d call the case style art deco, the hands have been called “hypodermic” or “syringe”. It appears to me to be in exquisite condition, and a worthwhile addition to a watch collection. As to what it should sell for? I don’t think an “expert” would be required to give you an answer to that question. The market for pocket watches right now is not that great. Not more than $300.00 in my opinion, but if you can grab it for less, jump on it. Beyond that, what you might offer would depend on how much you love it. I love it, but it is not what I personally collect. The last pocket watch I bought was an 18-size, 1877 model Waltham in an exquisite hunter case, perfect enamel dial, movement requiring some work. I paid $50.00 (Cdn.) for it!

Thank you very much for all of that information. Very helpful and much appreciated.

 

[SOG53]

Wow gorgeous love it. Hope you get it. Be prepared though pocket watches are a rabbit hole well travelled!!

 

[gbesq]

GOT IT!

 

[SOG53]

Congrats look forward to more pics

 

[kaplan]

I love the hands, so unique, often times I want to grab another pocket watch too but while selling it's a nightmare as the demand is negative

 

[OMTOM]

As already pointed out above, the calibre detail is visible: we see (at least) ‘37.5 T1 17p’ (thus 17 jewels).

While Ranfft is always a useful reference, for Omega watches AJTT is better – and there we find that the 37.5 L (with choice of 15 or 17 jewels) started life in 1931, but the 37.5 T1 (also with 15 or 17 jewels) started in 1940, later given the calibre reference 142. The AJTT entry also shows that in 1941 there was a chronometer derivation (cal. 143) which also had a ‘bulletin’ certificate.

The period was certainly art deco – and Omega’s 37.5 was a wonderful example of some of the creations of bow, dial, cases and hands in that period (which has been a previous thread here). Omega’s designers must have had a field day with the range of designs they came up with.

The watch appears in Omega catalogues G570 (1943), G580 (1946) and G590 (1949) – and maybe others (G570 is shown here). The reference number given is 1119 – and three versions are shown in each catalogue, the stainless steel version (CK1119), 14 kt gold (OJ1119), 18 kt gold (OT1119) – a gold-filled version is not shown. Similar hands are shown on the watch bottom right on the catalogue page.

@Tire-comedon might be along and may be able to give more detail of this particular combination.

 

[gbesq]

Looking at the photo of the 1119 on the catalog page that you provided, it appears that this reference has leaf styled hands. The watch that I purchased has syringe styled hands and looks more like reference 1122 shown on the lower right hand side of the page. Am I missing something?

 

[Canuck]

gbesq

Looking at the photo of the 1119 on the catalog page that you provided, it appears that this reference has leaf styled hands. The watch that I purchased has syringe styled hands and looks more like reference 1122 shown on the lower right hand side of the page. Am I missing something?

Bear in mind that the subject watch appeared in a number of catalogs over a period of several years. Catalogs were often aimed at specific markets, differing to appeal to particular markets, and did not necessarily show every model the company produced. It is not uncommon for small differences to pop up. I have a Bulova wrist watch that was produced during the early 1940s. It appeared in annual catalogs over the years it was produced. Same model name each year, but minor differences year to year.

 

[gbesq]

Canuck

Bear in mind that the subject watch appeared in a number of catalogs over a period of several years. Catalogs were often aimed at specific markets, differing to appeal to particular markets, and did not necessarily show every model the company produced. It is not uncommon for small differences to pop up. I have a Bulova wrist watch that was produced during the early 1940s. It appeared in annual catalogs over the years it was produced. Same model name each year, but minor differences year to year.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[OMTOM]

Your question is valid – and it is confusing.

There was a range of cases, dials, bows and hands. We see your bow in the catalogue image I highlighted – but your case might be as shown in the image to the right. Your hands are definitely used on the watch shown as Ref. 1122. The nearest dial to yours would seem to be in the watch to the right (Ref. 1120) – but I don’t think it’s the same (I don’t see your dial there).

Omega sometimes used even a different calibre in a watch without changing the reference number!

If you look at the image I have highlighted, 1119 is shown with Cadran (dial) 4034. We see the numbers of the other dial versions shown (sometimes with a surcharge – we see Ref.1081 has a Fr.2. - (2 Franc) surcharge for dial 345.

That’s why I referred to @Tire-comedon, who has many catalogues and interest in this period – and might well expand on my explanation (or disagree!).

I referred to “this particular combination” – it was a combination of case/dials/bow/hands. Although it might be nice to know, I don’t think it’s too important – you asked for some information, and now you know what the calibre of your watch is. You also see what a wonderfully creative world Omega had in the 1930s/1940s. Also with wristwatches – but at that time not to the same extent as pocket watches.

Another variation was the variety of casebacks – different patterns (with names). You will find more detail in this thread: (I show Page 2 because it includes an image I showed of the 37.5 bow varieties – which still didn’t include yours!). https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-omega-pocket-watch-thread.122246/page-2

But finally the warning that you are entering the dark world of pocket watches and (as @SOG53 mentioned above) – some people have never been seen again.

 

[gbesq]

OMTOM

Your question is valid – and it is confusing.

There was a range of cases, dials, bows and hands. We see your bow in the catalogue image I highlighted – but your case might be as shown in the image to the right. Your hands are definitely used on the watch shown as Ref. 1122. The nearest dial to yours would seem to be in the watch to the right (Ref. 1120) – but I don’t think it’s the same (I don’t see your dial there).

Omega sometimes used even a different calibre in a watch without changing the reference number!

If you look at the image I have highlighted, 1119 is shown with Cadran (dial) 4034. We see the numbers of the other dial versions shown (sometimes with a surcharge – we see Ref.1081 has a Fr.2. - (2 Franc) surcharge for dial 345.

That’s why I referred to @Tire-comedon, who has many catalogues and interest in this period – and might well expand on my explanation (or disagree!).

I referred to “this particular combination” – it was a combination of case/dials/bow/hands. Although it might be nice to know, I don’t think it’s too important – you asked for some information, and now you know what the calibre of your watch is. You also see what a wonderfully creative world Omega had in the 1930s/1940s. Also with wristwatches – but at that time not to the same extent as pocket watches.

Another variation was the variety of casebacks – different patterns (with names). You will find more detail in this thread: (I show Page 2 because it includes an image I showed of the 37.5 bow varieties – which still didn’t include yours!). https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-omega-pocket-watch-thread.122246/page-2

But finally the warning that you are entering the dark world of pocket watches and (as @SOG53 mentioned above) – some people have never been seen again.

Thanks so much for this very helpful and informative response. I can see why pocket watches are a black hole for the collector, but I'm fascinated by astronomy and gravity phenomena, so count me among those who may never be seen again.