Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Canuck · Nov 16, 2021

Canuck
You’re familiar with this one. My 135 year old Richard Dawson, Liverpool watch. I’ve shown it here before. I remembered today that it had a sterling silver chain on it when I got it. I removed the chain, then binned the chain and the watch. Over the last three days, I have done a bunch of work on the watch, Today, I resurrected the chain and cleaned it up and put it on the watch. The chain weighs 65.5 grams. That is over two ounces, Troy. Here they are together.

I did some more work on this one today. I realized when I fitted the new mainspring, that it was loo long, and this results in a shortened run time on a full wind. I was getting about 12 hours on a full wind. It had been worked on before I got it, and someone had no clue about the peculiar cannon pinion arrangement on the watch, and they omitted a domed tension washer, and the cannon pinion was a very loose fit. Today, I shortened the mainspring, fabricated a domed steel tension washer, and put it all back together. Regulating this watch is a guess and by golly arrangement as it has a 14,400 beats per hour escapement which is not compatible with modern timing machines. Stay tuned.

DaveK · Nov 16, 2021

Canuck
Eat your hearts out! Here is the finished (well, almost finished) Stewart Dawson, Liverpool watch I offered for free, to anyone who’d pay the postage...]

This is the best outcome, you’ve invested time and talent to give it a new life 👍

lindo · Nov 16, 2021

I am not really a pocket watch collector, but every now and then one will appeal so much that it just has to be acquired. This one turned up today in an antique shop. It has a nickel silver case 50.7mm diameter, a fine enamel dial, a Swiss made chronograph movement in superb condition, a bevelled glass crystal and the original case. My best guess on the date is somewhere between 1900 and 1920.

I like the fact that it is in a nickel silver case rather than silver or gold, because it is a tool watch meant for use, not show. Having said that, there are very few signs of use at all.

I do not know enough to recognise the movement maker, so I would be grateful for advice from the old hands who have contributed so much to this thread.

Canuck · Nov 17, 2021

It is a shame that manufacturers of such watches didn’t put their trade mark on the mechanism is a visible spot. On occasion, they did leave a trade mark behind the dial, but often that was not the case, either. Hopefully, someone will recognize the movement.

There is a twin to your watch currently listed in an on line auction. It is listed as “possibly” Lemania.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143258774725

One gets the impression that manufacturers of watches over the decades had never given much thought to watches becoming collectibles! And that people in the future might be interested enough to wonder about them. They produced them as “service items”, to be used up and retired, or turfed. So much about a lot of watches we collect today, particularly many generic Swiss watches, is consigned to history, unfortunately.

Yours appears to be in exquisite condition.

lindo · Nov 17, 2021

Thanks for that. My photos do not do it justice - it is gorgeous. It is going to my watchmaker today for service. If he recognises the movement I will update this post.

Later edit: the watchmaker believes the movement was made by Longines.

Canuck · Nov 17, 2021

Canuck
You’re familiar with this one. My 135 year old Richard Dawson, Liverpool watch. I’ve shown it here before. I remembered today that it had a sterling silver chain on it when I got it. I removed the chain, then binned the chain and the watch. Over the last three days, I have done a bunch of work on the watch, Today, I resurrected the chain and cleaned it up and put it on the watch. The chain weighs 65.5 grams. That is over two ounces, Troy. Here they are together.

Next chapter in this saga. Since this watch has a 14,400 beats per hour train (that’s 4 beat per second, not 5 as is so often the case with vintage watches), modern timing machines aren’t calibrated to time these old guys. So regulating it is a crap shoot. I have fabricated a new cupped steel tension washer for the cannon pinion, and shortened the mainspring by about two inches. Run time should increase to more that 24-hours. I have it now so that it should be running to about one or two minutes per day. I am very pleased with it.

I think I can see why I was not overwhelmed with offers to take it off my hands, for free. The repair I have done on it has not involved any expenditure. Just ingenuity and time. But if I was doing this repair for someone, it would be more than the watch is worth, to do.

My spouse has a stash of Canadian silver dollars. On Thursday, I’ll head for a coin shop for a coin frame designed for one of these Canadian silver dollar coins. I need something for the fob end of the chain I have on it. I’ll likely be wearing a vest on Thursday evening since my fiddle group plays for a dance. I might just wear this old fella for the first time. Love it!

Zapatta · Nov 18, 2021

https://omegaforums.net/threads/help-please.138858

Early 1,1 mil. serial numbers

WestCoastTime · Nov 19, 2021

Elgin 345, c.1927
Regular workingman's every timepiece. Its had a good long life, judging by the well worn case...

Canuck · Nov 19, 2021

The skinny on @WestCoastTime ’s sharp Elgin. From the pocketwatchdatabase.com site.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/29855770

If the watch shows signs of having had a lot of wear, the movement has the look of one that has always had competent service. And it also has the look of a watch that has never been abused. Nice presentation. Did you service it yourself? Indeed a nice acquisition.

WestCoastTime · Nov 20, 2021

Canuck
The skinny on @WestCoastTime ’s sharp Elgin. From the pocketwatchdatabase.com site.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/29855770

If the watch shows signs of having had a lot of wear, the movement has the look of one that has always had competent service. And it also has the look of a watch that has never been abused. Nice presentation. Did you service it yourself? Indeed a nice acquisition.

Yes, I do watch restoration as a hobby for relaxation & mental engagement. I mostly work on 1960's era wristwatches, but I will pick up a pocket watch now & then for some variety. This one came in a lot of 10 from an old watch collector's estate sale.

Canuck · Nov 20, 2021

My newly acquired 1885 Richard Dawson, Liverpool, key wind pocket watch has settled in to run about 26 hours on a full wind. It runs fast about 5 minutes a day with the regulator set on the slow side. I could remedy that by putting some timing washers on the balance wheel screws to slow the rate, then adjust the regulator a bit to the fast side. But I have fussed with this old pelter so much over the past ten days or so, I think I am just going to leave it alone. I was involved with my fiddle group, playing for a dance, last Thursday. So I wore the watch to show it to my group. They were intrigued, to say the least.

Waltesefalcon · Nov 20, 2021

WestCoastTime
Elgin 345, c.1927

I really like the presentation in your first photo, it shows a great sense of artistry.

Canuck · Nov 20, 2021

A watch retrieved from the wreck of the Titanic. The name on the dial is INGERSOLL YANKEE. The Ingersoll Yankee was a watch made by the Forestville Clock Co. for Ingersoll Bros. Five and Dime stores in New York, and it sold for $1.00. It would appear as though this watch might have been in possession of someone from (perhaps) the U S A who was returning home on the Titanic.

This is a very similar Ingersoll Yankee in my collection. The guarantee paper inside the case back is dated prior to 1910.

WestCoastTime · Nov 20, 2021

Canuck
A watch retrieved from the wreck of the Titanic. The name on the dial is INGERSOLL YANKEE. The Ingersoll Yankee was a watch made by the Forestville Clock Co. for Ingersoll Bros. Five and Dime stores in New York, and it sold for $1.00. It would appear as though this watch might have been in possession of someone from (perhaps) the U S A who was returning home on the Titanic.

This is a very similar Ingersoll Yankee in my collection. The guarantee paper inside the case back is dated prior to 1910.

Ship struck the iceberg around 11:30p, went down around 2:30a. Judging by the rust stain on the dial looks like the watch stopped for the last time around 2a.

Canuck · Nov 20, 2021

WestCoastTime
Ship struck the iceberg around 11:30p, went down around 2:30a. Judging by the rust stain on the dial looks like the watch stopped for the last time around 2a.

One might very well question which time the sinking happened. GMT, EST, Newfoundland time, or exactly what time zone reference was used when the time was given. Did the radio operator on the Titanic re-set the clock on the radio room wall every time the ship entered another time zone? Does anyone have an explanation as to the time zone reference?

There were several pictures in the exhibit of other watches apparently retrieved from the Titanic that were set at times other than the purported time of the accident and subsequent sinking. One was (apparently) set at a time before the event, and another that was set some 3 or 4 hours later. No doubt anyone on the Titanic would not have been updating the time on their watches as the ship traveled through numerous time zones. How can one know?

WestCoastTime · Nov 20, 2021

Canuck
One might very well question which time the sinking happened. GMT, EST, Newfoundland time, or exactly what time zone reference was used when the time was given. Did the radio operator on the Titanic re-set the clock on the radio room wall every time the ship entered another time zone? Does anyone have an explanation as to the time zone reference?

There were several pictures in the exhibit of other watches apparently retrieved from the Titanic that were set at times other than the purported time of the accident and subsequent sinking. One was (apparently) set at a time before the event, and another that was set some 3 or 4 hours later. No doubt anyone on the Titanic would not have been updating the time on their watches as the ship traveled through numerous time zones. How can one know?

"Ship's time" to local solar noon. But as you point out, no way of know what reference this or other clocks would have been set to at that moment.

Canuck · Nov 20, 2021

WestCoastTime
"Ship's time" to local solar noon. But as you point out, no way of know what reference this or other clocks would have been set to at that moment.

If the navigator had referenced “solar time” at noon, earlier that day (and which time zone might they have been in ), how many time zones might the ship have traveled through between the last sun shot, and the time of the collision with the ice berg? The ship’s chronometer(s) would have been operating on GMT, so that is likely the time that would have been reported. But since the ship was three or four time zones east of Greenwich at the time of the accident, about the only thing that can be certain was that it happened at night. Titanic sank at 05:18 hours GMT, and Newfoundland time is 3 1/2 hours behind GMT. So the times reported would seem to be GMT. Because the ship originated in England, AND there’s a chance that some of the passengers whose watches were running and had not stopped or been re-set, may have been set on GMT. And round and round we go!

DaveK · Nov 20, 2021

WestCoastTime
Elgin 345, c.1927...

Here’s mine from one year earlier than yours, and sporting a 315 movement. Same hands, same/similar font, different dial layout of course

Canuck · Nov 20, 2021

In his book Watchmaker’s and Clockmakers Encyclopaedic Dictionary, Donald DeCarle calls the style of hands on the two Elgins, Lozenge Mitre. Veritable “twins”. So often with these fancy hand styles, one has become broken, and either a mismatching replacement, or a different style matching (or mismatched) pair fitted. Nice these both have original matching hands. Good tastes, lads.

The hands on my 12-size Colonial Waltham, DeCarle calls “Cathedral”.

DaveK · Nov 21, 2021

Canuck
In his book Watchmaker’s and Clockmakers Encyclopaedic Dictionary, Donald DeCarle calls the style of hands on the two Elgins, Lozenge Mitre.

Funny, I’ve never even considered what the name of the hand style is. Knowing this makes it even more interesting. Thanks @Canuck

PS, beautiful, pristine Waltham