Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Canuck · May 8, 2021

Dan S
Obviously, most of the interest here is in American watches, and for good reason. But I have one nice Swiss PW that I will add to the thread for some contrast. It's an IWC, cal 73 finger-bridge movement from 1928. It has clearly been used, but remains in good condition and has retained all of its original parts. The dial is metal, and has a subtle brushed finish that didn't show up very well in the photos. While you can tell it's well-made, and the movement is gold-plated, it is quite plain and undecorated.

This movement is the open-face version of the full-hunter cal 74 that was famously incorporated into IWC's

I am almost certain someone will now post a picture of a Swiss movement that is as ornate as many of the American movements we have seen in this thread,
legendary ref 325 "Portuguiser" in 1939-42 for its original run of ~300 watches.

I really like the attention to detail in the finishing of the movement. The edges of all the bridges and steel parts chamfered, and given a mirror polish. The word “impeccable” comes to mind, in every detail of the IWC. And has either been used very little, or treated with the utmost respect. Its condition is exquisite. I was surprised/disappointed to see the inner cuvette marked, “metal.” In other words, not karat gold. The founder of IWC was American as I recall.

Swiss manufacturers and possibly the Swiss watch buying public don’t appear to have considered damask finish and ornate engraving on watch movements, to be important. I have often wondered if that might have been because generally, Swiss watches were sold, cased. Where for decades, American watches were sold as separate movement/dial/case, then assembled for the customer. It might have been easier for the American watch merchant to sell the “eye candy” of the damask finish and engraving, rather than esoteric features such as temperature compensation, isochronism, position adjustments, and great accuracy, etc. Perhaps the decoration seemed to justify the higher price on the fancier (but also highly adjusted) movement.

Dan S · May 8, 2021

Canuck
I really like the attention to detail in the finishing of the movement. The edges of all the bridges and steel parts chamfered, and given a mirror polish. The word “impeccable” comes to mind, in every detail of the IWC. And has either been used very little, or treated with the utmost respect. Its condition is exquisite. I was surprised/disappointed to see the inner cuvette marked, “metal.” In other words, not karat gold. The founder of IWC was American as I recall.

Swiss manufacturers and possibly the Swiss watch buying public don’t appear to have considered damask finish and ornate engraving on watch movements, to be important. I have often wondered if that might have been because generally, Swiss watches were sold, cased. Where for decades, American watches were sold as separate movement/dial/case, then assembled for the customer. It might have been easier for the American watch merchant to sell the “eye candy” of the damask finish and engraving, rather than esoteric features such as temperature compensation, isochronism, position adjustments, and great accuracy, etc. Perhaps the decoration seemed to justify the higher price on the fancier (but also highly adjusted) movement.

Many thanks for pointing out the subtle details about the finishing of the movement. I also like your ideas about the different ways that American and Swiss watches were sold. It makes sense that American movements needed to stand on their own, while Swiss watches were sold as a package. Even top-notch Patek movements are often fairly plain, or maybe have some basic Cotes de Geneve stripes.

In looking at this watch, my feeling is that it was used but well-cared for, since it shows significant wear upon inspection. For example, the bow has a sort of tree-branch texture that is still prominent on the sides but worn away at the top, where the clasp for the chain was attached. Similarly, the texture on the back of the case shows pocket-wear in spots. This discussion gives me some motivation to have it serviced and use it on occasion, I suspect it would be a good timekeeper.

Canuck · May 8, 2021

@Dan S ,

I think you can take it to the bank that, properly serviced and adjusted, your IWC will be an excellent timekeeper. It has a bi-metallic, temperature compensating balance wheel, blued steel Breguet (overcoil) hairspring, has (I’m almost certain) 17-ruby jewels, and a micrometer regulator. I can hardly imagine any watch manufacturer that would lavish so much care and attention to the finishing of the movement, and the over all high standard that your watch exhibits, that they wouldn’t also build it for someone whose demand for perfection would also extend to accuracy!

At one time, the very best American made, high performance watches (i. e. railroad standard) weren’t emblazoned with terms such as position adjustments, temperature adjustments, safety barrel, patent pinion, double roller, and such terms as later became mandatory on a railroad approved watch. So if you are familiar with how American made railroad standard watches have been marked since the early years of the 20th century, you might well be suspicious when you run into a quality watch like your IWC that isn’t similarly marked. But I suspect your watch is likely quite capable of keeping time very close to railroad standard. In spite of not being marked, the adjustments were probably done.

river rat · May 9, 2021

Don't have a lot of none US made pocket watches but here is a watch one of my ex bosses gave me when I retired from the job was from his dad. A Ulysse Nardin and was sold from a store in Canada Canuck thought you would like this one. I put a interesting silver fob/ chain on it has a clip to attach to your belt that looks like a buckle. It's pin set you push the button on the side then turn the crown to set the time. The movement and case serial numbers match.

Fritz · May 9, 2021

TexOmega
Hamilton 992
Circa 1910
Absolutely gorgeous movement esthetics
Illinois Watch case Company
And a not often seen double sunk dial is the capstone

WOW, I don’t know which is better to look at, the two tone movement or that dial!
Did i say wow?

Canuck · May 9, 2021

river rat
Don't have a lot of none US made pocket watches but here is a watch one of my ex bosses gave me when I retired from the job was from his dad. A Ulysse Nardin and was sold from a store in Canada Canuck thought you would like this one. I put a interesting silver fob/ chain on it has a clip to attach to your belt that looks like a buckle. It's pin set you push the button on the side then turn the crown to set the time. The movement and case serial numbers match.

By the time the Nardin was made (circa 1875-80, or so), stem setting had been developed, and was in use by some Swiss manufacturers. Also, a lot of watches of this era, coming out of Switzerland, had cylinder escapements. This one has a jewelled lever. Breguet (overcoil) hairspring. The balance wheel is bi-metallic, so it is temperature compensated. The vitreous enamel dial appears to have damage near the 8, but it still looks good for a 150 year old watch. The case is silver, and could be 0.800 fine (coin silver). The case back is probably stamped with the marking. Most of the Swiss stuff I see from around that time, I find easy to dislike. But the Nardin is indeed an exception. It appears to be a 10-size movement, or thereabouts.

Fritz · May 9, 2021

I was just out in the back yard diggin' a root out and a thought came into my dopey brain:
"Should you really be hammering around with a shovel and flinging dirt about wearing your devil diver and your Ball?"

likely no...

Canuck · May 9, 2021

@Fritz ,

I am appalled! You would wear a watch doing that kind of heavy labour? For shame! I have watches for utility use, but even those, I don’t wear for heavy, physical work! It is good you stopped long enough to take them off!

Fritz · May 9, 2021

Canuck
@Fritz ,

I am appalled! You would wear a watch doing that kind of heavy labour? For shame! I have watches for utility use, but even those, I don’t wear for heavy, physical work! It is good you stopped long enough to take them off!

actually, I stopped long enough to have a beer and then take them off.

But yes, I know they're both "tool" watches but I really must remember to take such things off when doing the really ugly work. I'm usually better than this.

last year I forgot my wrist watch when taking the pool cover off and doused it in "black scum water", luckily it was my Citizen diver so no harm done. Just another Nato in the wash.

It's kind of funny when you think of it, when my Dad bought his 992B it was likely the most expensive thing he'd ever bought besides his Studebaker, and he proceeded to put it through hell on a steam engine.

Because thats what it was built for!

and it just took it, day after day... for 16 years until some bright boffin decided he needed a desk job as (ready for it, best job title ever):

Trainmaster & Roadforeman of Locomotive Engineers.

He moved well beyond that title over the next 25 years but that one sounded the coolest.

Darlinboy · May 9, 2021

Smiths Deluxe navigator’s pocket watch, circa 1941, made in England, issued by the MoD in WW II… HAGD All!

TexOmega · May 9, 2021

Close cousin to the Mighty Pocket Watch

Minerva Stop watch
55mm case width
7j

Canuck · May 9, 2021

Darlinboy
Smiths Deluxe navigator’s pocket watch, circa 1941, made in England, issued by the MoD in WW II… HAGD All!

@Darlinboy ,

Might your Smiths timer be an eight-day? I was amused by the “Deluxe” on the dial. Typically, military materiel (watches in this instance) are quite utilitarian. With reason, of course.

Canuck · May 9, 2021

TexOmega
Close cousin to the Mighty Pocket Watch

Minerva Stop watch
55mm case width
7j

@TexOmega ,

One might assume this one is start/stop/re-set with a push-button crown? It looks typically military. Are there marks on the outside case back that might say? And is it jewelled lever, or pin pallet?

TexOmega · May 9, 2021

Canuck
@TexOmega ,

One might assume this one is start/stop/re-set with a push-button crown? It looks typically military. Are there marks on the outside case back that might say? And is it jewelled lever, or pin pallet?

Yes

Blank back

How does one determine this by sight?

Canuck · May 9, 2021

TexOmega
Yes

Blank back

How does one determine this by sight?

@TexOmega ,

I looked at the stop watch again. There is a 95% chance it has a jewelled lever. Being a 7 jewel model, there are likely two jewels each on the top and bottom balance pivots, and a roller jewel, for a total of 5. No jewels visible anywhere else, so the sixth and seventh jewels have to be on the lever. Is better than pin pallet, yes? Yes!

JimInOz · May 10, 2021

While I've enjoyed this thread, I haven't contributed much, so here we go.

A nice little nameless pocket watch arrived today. Inside caseback has a name "Claridge" so it's one of the forgotten "entrepreneur" brands.

Movement is a 15''' and looks like it has DNA from Felsa, FHF, A Schild, but I haven't been able to pin it down. Will probably have to take the bridges/dial off to find out anything.

This movement has me stumped ATM.

Inside of the caseback, Swiss made case, nothing unusual.

The back of the case, It was probably the reason I grabbed it. Wish I knew the symbolism.

JimInOz · May 10, 2021

The other one that arrived with the previous catch is this.

An "Algex" from France.

The movement is unusual in that the bridges etc appear to have been cut from plate stock with a chisel 😁.
Probably not that unusual, Schild et al also had very geometric designs in some of their movements.
This one, an HPX40 was made by Parrenin. The HP in the caliber reference is for Hippolyte Parrenin, who created the ebauche factory in France in 1876.

JimInOz · May 10, 2021

And while I was looking at the latest catch, I remembered that I had a similar movement so I managed to find it.

Another lesser known brand, a "Devina".

Again, the movement is an HPX40, but this time it has a surface finish, not sure what it's called.

Fritz · May 10, 2021

Canuck
@Darlinboy ,

Might your Smiths timer be an eight-day? I was amused by the “Deluxe” on the dial. Typically, military materiel (watches in this instance) are quite utilitarian. With reason, of course.

Its an English thing. I had an old army issue Triumph motorcycle, it was as utilitarian as it gets, flat head engine, heavy steel racks all over the back, no suspension...

and lovely gold hand painted pinstripes on the tank and fenders, over olive drab paint... what the hell?

Canuck · May 10, 2021

JimInOz
And while I was looking at the latest catch, I remembered that I had a similar movement so I managed to find it.

Another lesser known brand, a "Devina".

Again, the movement is an HPX40, but this time it has a surface finish, not sure what it's called.

@JimInOz

This one could be Henzi Pfaff. I always thought HP was French, and this movement has earmarks that make me think it is French. But Ranfft says that HP is from Pforzheim, Germany. But then what do I know? Thanks for posting your new acquisitions.