Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Posts
3,788
Likes
40,875
Any Illinois dial with the correct feet location would "work" and every buyer could pick and choose IF THEY DID NOT REQUIRE A RR GRADE WATCH as a condition of employment.

Metal dials, enamel dials, fancy, plain.
Got it! Thank you, Sir
Fingers crossed I might have an Illinois watch tonight 😀
Edited:
 
Posts
8,333
Likes
59,662
Any Illinois dial with the correct feet location would "work" and every buyer could pick and choose IF THEY DID NOT REQUIRE A RR GRADE WATCH as a condition of employment.

Metal dials, enamel dials, fancy, plain.

Arrows out on your example is nifty.


Most of the worries with PW collecting is a swapped out case.......or as your question, is the dial correct for the era and movement.
 
Posts
15,191
Likes
44,630
Here’s the skinny on @LesXL ‘s Illinois watch:

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/4557476

The Meggers & Ehrhardt “blue book” on Illinois says:

Temperature, three positions, isochronism, jewels in raised settings, rounded spoke train wheels and polished gold centre wheel, patent regulator, gold inlaid or regular, damascened, nickel gold or black filled engraving, gilded or nickel polished oval headed plate screws, double sunk glass enamel dial.

The subject Illinois watch is single-sunk, not double-sunk, but I feel the dial is correct. The listings in the “blue book” are based on observed examples, and perhaps the sample they describe, had the double-sunk dial. This grade was introduced in 1912 (s#2415001), and by 1924 or 1925 when the subject watch was made, the double-sunk dial was likely no longer used on this grade. Nice watch. Not railroad approved.

They also say that all but the earliest s# were double roller, even if the movement is not marked. The subject watch can safely be said to be double roller, even though it is not marked. This watch would have been approved for use on urban transit.
 
Posts
3,788
Likes
40,875
Here’s the skinny on @LesXL ‘s Illinois watch:

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/4557476

The Meggers & Ehrhardt “blue book” on Illinois says:

Temperature, three positions, isochronism, jewels in raised settings, rounded spoke train wheels and polished gold centre wheel, patent regulator, gold inlaid or regular, damascened, nickel gold or black filled engraving, gilded or nickel polished oval headed plate screws, double sunk glass enamel dial.

The subject Illinois watch is single-sunk, not double-sunk, but I feel the dial is correct. The listings in the “blue book” are based on observed examples, and perhaps the sample they describe, had the double-sunk dial. This grade was introduced in 1912 (s#2415001), and by 1924 or 1925 when the subject watch was made, the double-sunk dial was likely no longer used on this grade. Nice watch. Not railroad approved.

They also say that all but the earliest s# were double roller, even if the movement is not marked. The subject watch can safely be said to be double roller, even though it is not marked. This watch would have been approved for use on urban transit.
Thank you for your insight.

I had also done my homework and looked at the PW website. I checked the grade 606 picture gallery and saw most had the Illinois Central written on the dial. That triggered my question to the Oracle here 😀

A few more hours to go. The thing is that not many of those are available here in Europe. I've seen many nice ones in the new Continent, but with postage and import taxes, it makes no sense.

I have my PW piggy bank for when the pandemic is over and I can go back to visit my sister... And do some shopping !! ;-)
 
Posts
15,191
Likes
44,630
If you win it, how about posting some pictures? Best of luck!
 
Posts
3,788
Likes
40,875
If you win it, how about posting some pictures? Best of luck!
For sure! ... Got an Elgin somewhere above the Channel on my way to start with.

And hopefully, the Illinois next, clock is ticking 😀

I blame all of you guys for bringing me into the dark side!

Oh, and a lanyard that should be around Iceland now, before arriving to the Old Continent.

April could become Christmas !
 
Posts
3,817
Likes
16,152
Its been a rough few days here at the Katzenjammer residence...

First this virtually NOS dial shows up in the mail, so I spent a pleasant hour fitting it to my silver cased 15j 18s Elgin movement.



Best seen with the bezel off as the crystal has seen better days (100 years ago!)


And then my watch maker says the deal he was brokering for another customer for an old Hamilton fell through and was I still interested in the nasty thing... so that HAD to come home.



from 1926 its under 100 years old, so kinda new for my taste.... but I suppose it'll do.
 
Posts
3,788
Likes
40,875
If you win it, how about posting some pictures? Best of luck!
I didn't get it... Sold for 340$. I thought that I could get better deal when I go back to the US.

I'm sad :-(
 
Posts
17,417
Likes
164,461
I’d say late 19th century, Swiss, pin/set, stem-wind, patent micrometer regulator, 15 or 17- jewels, Breguet hairspring, looks to be temperature compensating balance wheel, private label for a European jeweller, better than average grade and beautifully preserved. Is this a family piece? Whether you have one pocket watch, or half a gross, whether you have just one pocket watch to like, or half a gross to like, you are a pocket watch BUFF! And you’re welcome here. Thanks for showing us your unique watch!

My thanks for your information and kind comments 👍

Acquired a number of years ago from a Brocante in the south of France whilst on holiday.
 
Posts
3,817
Likes
16,152
I'm starting to forget wrist watches exist. I mean, I'm wearing one right now but they just don't seem to matter!

GOOD THREAD!
 
Posts
3,788
Likes
40,875
I'm starting to forget wrist watches exist. I mean, I'm wearing one right now but they just don't seem to matter!

GOOD THREAD!
Soon to be Sub-forum
 
Posts
15,191
Likes
44,630
Its been a rough few days here at the Katzenjammer residence...

First this virtually NOS dial shows up in the mail, so I spent a pleasant hour fitting it to my silver cased 15j 18s Elgin movement.



Best seen with the bezel off as the crystal has seen better days (100 years ago!)


And then my watch maker says the deal he was brokering for another customer for an old Hamilton fell through and was I still interested in the nasty thing... so that HAD to come home.



from 1926 its under 100 years old, so kinda new for my taste.... but I suppose it'll do.

The dial on your Elgin. The decoration is called “jewelling”.The decorative bits are hand applied while the enamel was soft following the firing. When the dial had cooled, a coat of powdered clear glaze called “flux” was sprinkled on, and the dial fired again. If you catch the dial in a glancing light, you’ll see the decorative bits are “under-glaze.” They are completely submerged in the glaze.

Quite a decent Hamilton 992. Well done!
 
Posts
15,191
Likes
44,630
For sure! ... Got an Elgin somewhere above the Channel on my way to start with.

And hopefully, the Illinois next, clock is ticking 😀

I blame all of you guys for bringing me into the dark side!

Oh, and a lanyard that should be around Iceland now, before arriving to the Old Continent.

April could become Christmas !

I suspect you’ve bought an @DaveK lanyard. I am wearing my Howard series 9 pocket watch on mine, today. You'll love it!
 
Posts
5,081
Likes
15,685
Beautiful movement on that Rockford. 🥰
 
Posts
15,191
Likes
44,630
The skinny on @TexOmega ’s handsome Rockford.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/rockford/620349

(Quoted from Michael Harrolds book, American Watchmaking, a Technical History of the American Watch Industry, 1850-1930)

One of the few companies to last 40 years was Rockford. They maintained a business in the railroad trade but also offered average and lower grade models. Production was never high, and on the average they manufactured in two weeks what Elgin made in one day.

In business from 1874 until 1915, in Rockford, Ill.
 
Posts
8,333
Likes
59,662
If y'all noticed, my Rockford was an Internationally sourced PW....... Case was made in Canada, but I doubt it was the original.
 
Posts
15,191
Likes
44,630
If y'all noticed, my Rockford was an Internationally sourced PW....... Case was made in Canada, but I doubt it was the original.

I didn’t see any extraneous case screw marks. Maybe the movement was exported to Canada, and then cased in a Canadian case. There was a time that many U S watch manufacturers didn’t case their movements. They were shipped in a container to the distributor or retailer, and cased when the customer bought the watch.

I look at a perfect double-sunk vitreous enamel dial such as your Rockford has, and it occurs to me that, if the case suffered to the extent that it was replaced, the dial most likely would show signs of damage, as well.
 
Posts
8,333
Likes
59,662
Possibly.

I never tried to learn case numbers and how to date them(maybe for the 992 and 992b)for a bunch of the manufacturers. Some on the NAWCC forum did and could quote that info.
 
Posts
15,191
Likes
44,630
About 115 years ago when this artifact was made, when you wanted to buy a watch, you didn’t walk into a jewellery store to view a panoply of ready to wear watches, all arrayed in their point of sale display boxes, ready to be wound, set, and put in the pocket. Rather, you had to choose the movement, dial, hands, and case, after which the store watchmaker would fit the components of your choice, together.

When it came time to choose the movement for your watch, this is likely what you were presented with, to start. A box with a movement in it!

Then you chose the dial, hands, and case.



The movement in this watch might be an example of the sort of “eye candy” designed to help a customer make a choice. Two-tone, nicely damascened and engraved, but only 11-jewels, and unadjusted! Probably would appeal to someone who wanted “pretty”, before they wanted a high quality, precision time keeper. The movement is not marked “adjusted.” This is an 1883 model Waltham, made in about 1903. The 1883 model was produced in open faced and hunter cased models, in stem wind, lever set models, and stem wind, stem set models, and everywhere from 7 jewels, to 21-jewels. I have even seen them as key winders! It was produced from 1883 until about 1915, and there were millions of them made.



Here’s the skinny on this artifact.
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/11375821
Edited: