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Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Canuck
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
Today, I'm wearing my circa 1897 Illinois Model 6, Grade 61 'Lakeside.' It has 17 jewels and was RR grade for the day, despite having a couple of features that would automatically diaqualify it as such only a couple of years later.

The dameskeening is hard to photo on this one, so you get treated to two photos of the mov't.
20260106_094706.webp 20260106_094626.webp 20260106_094644.webp
I have spent one half an hour or so, pouring over the Meggers & Ehrhardt “blue book” on Illinois watches, trying to locate a “Lakeside” grade 18-size Illinois. I suspect the Lakeside name is a private label name. I believe that Illinois produced more private label watches than any other American watchmaker. It is evident that the “blue book” couldn’t possibly list information on every movement with a private label name Illinois produced. The book concentrates on named grades which were named by the factory, not names used on movements marked with private label names. It would be interesting to learn more about the Lakeside name on the subject watch.

The book does mention that grade 61 Illinois movements marked “adjusted”, were railroad grade. The subject watch IS marked “Adjusted”, thereby it would likely have been considered railroad grade. The information in the pocketwatchdatabase site indicates it was NOT railroad grade. In this matter, I’d be inclined to trust the blue book.
 
Waltesefalcon
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Canuck Canuck
I have spent one half an hour or so, pouring over the Meggers & Ehrhardt “blue book” on Illinois watches, trying to locate a “Lakeside” grade 18-size Illinois. I suspect the Lakeside name is a private label name. I believe that Illinois produced more private label watches than any other American watchmaker. It is evident that the “blue book” couldn’t possibly list information on every movement with a private label name Illinois produced. The book concentrates on named grades which were named by the factory, not names used on movements marked with private label names. It would be interesting to learn more about the Lakeside name on the subject watch.

The book does mention that grade 61 Illinois movements marked “adjusted”, were railroad grade. The subject watch IS marked “Adjusted”, thereby it would likely have been considered railroad grade. The information in the pocketwatchdatabase site indicates it was NOT railroad grade. In this matter, I’d be inclined to trust the blue book.
Meggers and Ehrhardt is where I got the information that is was a railroad grade mov't. I couldn't find any information on "Lakeside" either when I've looked in the past. Considering the volume of PLs Illinois made I think it's a fairly safe assumption that this one is a PL.
 
Waltesefalcon
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Canuck Canuck
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/1357656

I noticed that @Waltesefalcon has uploaded a picture of this handsome watch to the pocketwatchdatabase site. I continue to be astonished that a 128 year old watch can survive in this condition. It probably has to do with the fact that wrist watches supplanted pocket watches as the watch of choice, 100 years or so ago. Meaning that the watches we love were retired to the sock drawer, many decades ago. Those of us that cherish these beauties can thank those who succumbed to the dictates of fashion over the decades.
I started documenting a few of my watches on the Pocketwatch Database this past year. Right now I've gotten most of my 18s Illinois and a smattering of others.
 
B
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Canuck Canuck
Notice that nowhere on this watch is the name of the maker (AWWCo. or Waltham). This watch was offered during a price war between Waltham and Eligin.
I have pretty much the same watch an 18 size Home based on the 1857 Waltham KWKS movement in a nice coin silver hunter case with the paper liner in the case attributing the watch to an Ottawa Ontario Jeweler and as in your case a blank dial probably indicating an early Private Label. My movement is 11 Jewels....yours appears to be the basic 7.
Canuck Canuck
Notice that nowhere on this watch is the name of the maker (AWWCo. or Waltham). This watch was offered during a price war between Waltham and Eligin.
 
TexOmega
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B bobertdob
I have pretty much the same watch an 18 size Home based on the 1857 Waltham KWKS movement in a nice coin silver hunter case with the paper liner in the case attributing the watch to an Ottawa Ontario Jeweler and as in your case a blank dial probably indicating an early Private Label. My movement is 11 Jewels....yours appears to be the basic 7.

Please post some cool pix of your Home pw
 
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Duracuir1 Duracuir1
A lot of money to sink into an old watch.
Awesome Pocket Watch Steve. I had heard about it but never saw pics until now via your link. Beyond rare and historic. Wouldn't it be a nice thread in the forum to have members indicate what historic watches they have collected with all the interesting relevant detail. I would pitch my McLaughlin Buick 1907 Elgin from the formulation of the McLaughlin Motor Car Company of 1907 ultimately General Motors in 1915
 
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
I spent way too much money on this one ($410), but the choo choo dial did me in. This is my new Columbus 16J Model 2 Railway King, circa 1892. The dial is pretty nice, there are a couple of hairlines between the 7 and 8 and between the 10 and 11, but other than that it looks good. It arrived in an old Dueber gold filled open face case, but I am pretty sure I have a 4oz coin silver hunting case squirreled away someplace that it will look rather handsome in. Honestly, the case is the only part of this watch that I don't love. The dial, the fleur de lis hands, the two tone damaskeening on the mov't with blued screws and gold accents on the regulator, it's all great.
20251209_162633.webp 20251209_162730.webp
 
B
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Awesome pocket watch and I think a great deal at what you paid. For an 1892 date it likely means Deiter Gruen was still at the helm of Columbus which started only in 1874. I love the Columbus pocket watches but only have managed to collect a handful (4)....they are excellent watches even the basic 7 jewel models.....Columbus ran into financial problems and I think the management changed in 1894 but in the end they only lasted into the early 1900 period before being sold to the Southbend family. My best is an 18Size 15J hunter in its original gold filled case. Yours would look incredible in that 4 oz silver case you mentioned.....do it!!
 
Duracuir1
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B bobertdob
Awesome Pocket Watch Steve. I had heard about it but never saw pics until now via your link. Beyond rare and historic. Wouldn't it be a nice thread in the forum to have members indicate what historic watches they have collected with all the interesting relevant detail. I would pitch my McLaughlin Buick 1907 Elgin from the formulation of the McLaughlin Motor Car Company of 1907 ultimately General Motors in 1915

Welcome aboard Bob! There is a thread about historic watches. Will find it.

And here you will enjoy the pocket watch eye candy and knowledge from the regular contributors.

https://omegaforums.net/posts/1986079/ Seiji Lépine
Seiji Lépine ·
Historical Watches Thread. Index below.

Oldest Longines AA4 183
https://omegaforums.net/threads/sea...nt-transitional-comptoir-aa4-made-1867.77157/

Notable People

Lt. Col Fredrick Faber MacCabe and the Black Watch Regiment.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/anyone-have-a-historical-watch.145564/page-12#post-2030952
Lt. Col. Harold Burton Lee RAMC D-Day Surgeon and Endurance Researcher
https://omegaforums.net/threads/anyone-have-a-historical-watch.145564/page-2#post-1992765
Vice...
 
TexOmega
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Hamilton 992
My serial aligns with factory documentation, 6/18 finishing dept date and correct plain nickel case.

IMG_9804.webp IMG_9805.webp 1-WW1_Hamilton_Army_Corp_of_Engineers_Ad_complete.webp Hal0211-001.webp
 
B
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I have been working on this watch for a few years as it will be my oldest grandsons graduation present coming this April at the University of Ottawa. The Home movement dates to 1871 and you can see the 18S 11 jewel waltham model 1857 movement. It also has the non compensating solid balance wheel. The case is Canadian and 3 oz of coin silver. The chain is 45 grams of sterling marked on each link and the FOB is a uniquely Canadian FOB being crafted from the Labradorite mineral and silver. It keeps good time but I suspect it won't be actively used much but hope he finds it special!! I really like the well built Waltham 1857 movement but most I have seen are the 1877 and a few 1883s. I am in the process of restoring a Waltham 1877 movement for my younger grandson who just started his post secondary school education....I have sourced an almost identical silver case just have to get it all together and running.......but have a few years....
 
TexOmega
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That was my Home watch Canuck linked to in your post.

I bought mine as seen in working condition years ago and have not seen many.

Cannot read your serial, but I date mine to 1874

1895673-66223b7d55096f2d837db12c1f9292fe.jpg.webp 1895674-8882fb0ca7bf46cb74ca3319ce3583bf.jpg.webp 1985606-f24a9b3e84bc043f7a7c3551f6f2750b.jpg.webp 1985608-aadd3100a8140a07e21f1a4a0f69e7ef.jpg.webp
Edited:
 
B
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TexOmega TexOmega
That was my Home watch Canuck linked to in your post.

I bought mine as seen in working condition years ago and have not seen many.
I agree you do not see very many I think I have only come across two in my travels. Many more Wm Ellery 1857s and 1877s.....and off coarse the Broadway 7 jewel. I don't know why they have no Waltham inscriptions. Perhaps they were just trying to segment their base 1857 product to appear like they have multiple brands or maybe unknowingly begin the Private Label business. Ive seen some really odd inscriptions on these very early key wind American watches....I continue to look for them and recently added a non working but cheap Tremont to my collection......easily and inexpensively repaired and now a joy to watch working....
 
B
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B bobertdob
I agree you do not see very many I think I have only come across two in my travels. Many more Wm Ellery 1857s and 1877s.....and off coarse the Broadway 7 jewel. I don't know why they have no Waltham inscriptions. Perhaps they were just trying to segment their base 1857 product to appear like they have multiple brands or maybe unknowingly begin the Private Label business. Ive seen some really odd inscriptions on these very early key wind American watches....I continue to look for them and recently added a non working but cheap Tremont to my collection......easily and inexpensively repaired and now a joy to watch working....
As an aside the earliest Illinois 18 S key winds are really really nice....Ive got two one being by Illinois itself ie. engraved and the other by Charles Stark a wholesaler in Toronto who used both Illinois and Aurora movements.....Elgin key winds are fairly common so have a few of them as well can't recall if I got some early Hampdens going or not....a bit harder to get repaired....parts an issue
 
TexOmega
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They started Home Watch Co as their entry level pw, and it is believed they did not want to dilute the Waltham brand.
 
Waltesefalcon
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B bobertdob
Awesome pocket watch and I think a great deal at what you paid. For an 1892 date it likely means Deiter Gruen was still at the helm of Columbus which started only in 1874. I love the Columbus pocket watches but only have managed to collect a handful (4)....they are excellent watches even the basic 7 jewel models.....Columbus ran into financial problems and I think the management changed in 1894 but in the end they only lasted into the early 1900 period before being sold to the Southbend family. My best is an 18Size 15J hunter in its original gold filled case. Yours would look incredible in that 4 oz silver case you mentioned.....do it!!
Thank you, this is my first Columbus but I really impressed with its quality.

One quick correction for your post, I think you meant to say that it was the Studebaker family who bought Columbus.

For the most part I collect Illinois and Hamilton.
 
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
Thank you, this is my first Columbus but I really impressed with its quality.

One quick correction for your post, I think you meant to say that it was the Studebaker family who bought Columbus.

For the most part I collect Illinois and Hamilton.
Yes thank you the Studebaker family for sure.....Ive tried several times to buy a Southbend Studebaker but as yet unable to make a deal.....hard to find....
 
TexOmega
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B bobertdob
Yes thank you the Studebaker family for sure.....Ive tried several times to buy a Southbend Studebaker but as yet unable to make a deal.....hard to find....
Be mindful that the best Studebaker are the early editions before the mail-order Studebaker years.

"Grade 229 The Studebaker" on the movement is an example I have and if you search you'll find some pix on this thread.
 
Waltesefalcon
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I've always been partial to the Studebaker Golden Hawk. And, we can't forget the Avanti, it was so far ahead of its time. But, it was too little and too late to save the company.
 
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