Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

pdxleaf · Sep 17, 2024

This is my first purchased PW, which was an impulse purchase when I knew nothing about PW, except that I wanted one. After this, I did some reading and purchased my Hamilton 992 and Illinois 23j Bunn Special, both of which I really like. (My first owned PW was an Elgin that came out of the attic of my great-grandmother, which was later stolen in a house burglary.)

So this brings me back to my neglected and unloved first PW. I decided to pull it out (had to look all over the house for it) and try to figure out what it is.

Longines, 17j, double (?) Hunter Fahys 16s, serial number 1588888. It looks attractive to me, which is why I bought it. But it's a mystery as to model, grade and production year and volume.

Canuck · Sep 17, 2024

My best guess is that the engraved cuvette showing 1907 is about the best guess for vintage. I was unable to see the word “double” anywhere, but it might refer to the watch having a double roller (as opposed to a single roller). The Swiss movement is in an American case which would appear to be original. So, if he Watch did service in North America, it could not be considered of railroad standard. By 1907, in North America, a railroad standard watch would have needed to have the manufacturer’s name on the dial, and the movement would have had to been marked double roller”, and “timed to x positions”. The hunter case would also not have been railroad standard. It would appear hat the Longines is “stem set”, not “lever set”. It would appear to be a better than average Swiss-made watch for the era. 17-jewels, temperature compensated balance wheel, blued steel Breguet (overcoil) hairspring, patented micrometer regulator. I am not aware that Longines watches were ever accepted for railroad use in the U S A. But some grades of Longines were accepted in Canada. But I suspect this is not one of those. Pretty case, and in total, seems in nice condition.

pdxleaf · Sep 17, 2024

Canuck
My best guess is that the engraved cuvette showing 1907 is about the best guess for vintage. I was unable to see the word “double” anywhere, but it might refer to the watch having a double roller (as opposed to a single roller). The Swiss movement is in an American case which would appear to be original. So, if he Watch did service in North America, it could not be considered of railroad standard. By 1907, in North America, a railroad standard watch would have needed to have the manufacturer’s name on the dial, and the movement would have had to been marked double roller”, and “timed to x positions”. The hunter case would also not have been railroad standard. It would appear hat the Longines is “stem set”, not “lever set”. It would appear to be a better than average Swiss-made watch for the era. 17-jewels, temperature compensated balance wheel, blued steel Breguet (overcoil) hairspring, patented micrometer regulator. I am not aware that Longines watches were ever accepted for railroad use in the U S A. But some grades of Longines were accepted in Canada. But I suspect this is not one of those. Pretty case, and in total, seems in nice condition.

Thanks. It does look a bit more embellished than many of the Longines I see on the web.

The case doesn’t have brassing but it has a couple scratches, one of which indented the case slightly. (In some respects, a good shape case with one or two scratches tends to look worse than an overal worn case. I keep focusing on the couple scratches. 🤦)

I think this was intended for the USA market; at least I found it in the US. I read a post that stated that Longines PW imported into Britain could not include the brand on the dial. If true, it could have also applied to the USA intended watches, which explains why it doesn't include "Longines" on the dial.

I could probably get an extract from Longines but don't want to pay for one.

I need to get it cleaned so I can find out how accurate it is.

These PWs are pretty interesting. They've turned my head away from wristwatches. At this point, I think I'd like a clean Waltham 1872 American WC or AmWC. (I'd love a14k or 18k, but I can't imagine paying for one.) This seems like it would round out my small collection. The American grade vs Am vs AMn is a bit confusing. As is the 21j vs 15 or even 16j. Some of the 15j can be more expensive than 21j it seems, which is based on how many were produced? Anyway, Speedmasters are pretty straightforward compared to PWs.

Canuck · Sep 17, 2024

I hadn’t heard that Longines watches offered for sale in Britain could not have the name on the dial, and I very much doubt that would apply to the U S A. Learn something every day!

pdxleaf · Sep 17, 2024

Canuck
I hadn’t heard that Longines watches offered for sale in Britain could not have the name on the dial, and I very much doubt that would apply to the U S A. Learn something every day!

Here's where I read it. Not sure how accurate or if I read into it:

"In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries it was usual in Britain for watches to be branded, if they were branded at all, with the name of the retailer, not the manufacturer. This was a requirement of British retailers; the names of foreign manufacturers were simply not allowed on the goods they stocked. As a consequence of this, almost all Swiss watches imported into Britain until the 1920s were unsigned on the dial and movement. If any name appeared on the dial, it was the name of the British retailer, e.g. Harrods, Asprey. etc. These names were usually added to the dial in enamel paint, which is nothing like as durable as the vitreous enamel of the dial itself and has often become badly worn or disappeared altogether."

https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/longines.php

Bernhard J · Sep 18, 2024

Yesterday I won an on-line auction for this watch for absolute silly money. The movement is nothing special, but the enameled (not printed!) dial signature attracted my attention. I had never seen such a signature with a phone number before. Additionally the signature rang a bell, since I am a classic car lover. "Snutsel" was a Belgian high end coachbuilder in the first quarter of the 20th century and made bodies for various makes. So I reckoned that this might be an advertisement watch for this coachbuilder. Further research gave a Brussels phone book from 1914, and indeed, the phone number on the dial is that of a dependance of this coachbuilder. Here are photos of the watch, two bodies made by Snutsel (chassis: Benz 200 (!) HP, both), and further evidence regarding the phone number.

The seller had not done any homework of this kind and provided a very brief description only.

Now I just need to sell all watches, clocks, the house, etc., for purchasing a Snutsel bodied car like the one presented in Pebble Beach for matching this watch 😁

1913-Benz 82-200 PS #13280 Snutsel Torpedo (23).JPG

Canuck · Sep 18, 2024

I noticed the gun metal case on your latest watch. Very often, European gun metal cases also have some gold plating on them. Often of rose gold colour. Is your case like that? This watch has an interesting tie-in to the coachworks builder. Somewhat akin to the watch produced by Hamilton for the Packard motor car company. These dials have the image of a Packard radiator shell, and the message “ASK THE MAN WHO OWNS ONE”. A watch can become more than just another watch if one is prepared to forage a bit to uncover the background. Very interesting!

Edited to add that if your watch has the gold trim, that finish is called “gallone”.

Bernhard J · Sep 18, 2024

Canuck
Edited to add that if your watch has the gold trim, that finish is called “gallone”.

It does.

DaveK · Sep 18, 2024

Bernhard J
Yesterday I won an on-line auction for this watch for absolute silly money. The movement is nothing special, but the enameled (not printed!) dial signature attracted my attention. I had never seen such a signature with a phone number before. Additionally the signature rang a bell, since I am a classic car lover. "Snutsel" was a Belgian high end coachbuilder in the first quarter of the 20th century and made bodies for various makes. So I reckoned that this might be an advertisement watch for this coachbuilder. Further research gave a Brussels phone book from 1914, and indeed, the phone number on the dial is that of a dependance of this coachbuilder. Here are photos of the watch, two bodies made by Snutsel (chassis: Benz 200 (!) HP, both), and further evidence regarding the phone number.

The seller had not done any homework of this kind and provided a very brief description only.

Now I just need to sell all watches, clocks, the house, etc., for purchasing a Snutsel bodied car like the one presented in Pebble Beach for matching this watch 😁

I’ve never seen a phone number on a watch before, very nice. There are a few private label watches I’m on the lookout for. It is certainly an interesting way to collect.

Funny how they could have pretty much just spelled out telephone instead of teleph : - 😁

Waltesefalcon · Sep 18, 2024

Canuck
I noticed the gun metal case on your latest watch. Very often, European gun metal cases also have some gold plating on them. Often of rose gold colour. Is your case like that? This watch has an interesting tie-in to the coachworks builder. Somewhat akin to the watch produced by Hamilton for the Packard motor car company. These dials have the image of a Packard radiator shell, and the message “ASK THE MAN WHO OWNS ONE”. A watch can become more than just another watch if one is prepared to forage a bit to uncover the background. Very interesting!

Edited to add that if your watch has the gold trim, that finish is called “gallone”.

Oh, I'm jealous. I have often thought about buying a Packard Hamilton, but I haven't found the one for me yet.

DaveK · Sep 18, 2024

Waltesefalcon
Oh, I'm jealous. I have often thought about buying a Packard Hamilton, but I haven't found the one for me yet.

You can get a mail order studebaker for not too much money

TexOmega · Sep 18, 2024

Waltham Watch Co.
17j 18s PS Bartlett grade model 1883 circa 1901

Louis 14th style hands

Cool multicolored fancy dial and extra cool Full Box Hunter case

Waltesefalcon · Sep 18, 2024

DaveK
You can get a mail order studebaker for not too much money

That's not quite the same, I'm afraid.

TexOmega · Sep 22, 2024

992B with Hamilton #3 Tu-Tone case. Back and bezel are “base metal”, a post wartime supply chain issue.
circa 1946.
24hr dial.

noelekal · Sep 27, 2024

Pocket Watch Durability?

I must confess that I did "that which was evil" Tuesday night before bed and shamefully abused a poor pocket watch.

I had picked up an Illinois Electric Railway Standard from off Ebay a month or two back. Of late I have been interested in gathering in a few trolley/interurban pocket watches.

So, this Illinois example proved to require some help in the form of a proper crystal and a complete service. I carried it up to Fort Worth to "take the cure."

It was ready a few weeks back. I knew I had an ophthalmologist appointment coming up on Tuesday the 24th, mere blocks from the shop so waited until then to stop in for it. It was all wound and set and ticking nicely so I poked it into the watch pocket of my jeans and came home. No cautionary chain or lanyard attached.

I hauled it out a few times that afternoon to consult it for time and to just bond with it a bit. Came to be bedtime and I was carrying the jeans down the hall, forgetting about the watch in the pocket, but soon reminded by a clattering racket as the watch struck the tiled floor after an estimated 3 1/2 foot fall.

I was heartsick. It was lying face down on the floor and I fully expected the poor thing to have grenaded in the collision with the tile. Balance staff, dial, and new glass crystal all ruined.

I picked it up and turned it over and examined it. It was still running, the dial was whole, the crystal undamaged. I laid it on top of the gun safe and went to bed.

Next morning it was still ticking merrily. Here, nearly three days later it is still running and still on the same minute with the computer's clock. I'll run it until next Tuesday to see if it strays.

Have you ever had a pocket watch survive a heavy blow unscathed? How tough are these things?

No watches were harmed in this recreated depiction of the event.

Canuck · Sep 27, 2024

Do that a few more times and you’ll likely find that, given the scenario you describe, they are often subject to damage! How the watch is oriented when it hits, relative to the hard surface of a tile floor can have an effect on the resulting damage, or lack thereof. You don’t want to do it too often. In that note, I think you should send me your Hamilton 946 for safe keeping!

ghce · Sep 27, 2024

noelekal
Pocket Watch Durability?

I must confess that I did "that which was evil" Tuesday night before bed and shamefully abused a poor pocket watch.

I had picked up an Illinois Electric Railway Standard from off Ebay a month or two back. Of late I have been interested in gathering in a few trolley/interurban pocket watches.

So, this Illinois example proved to require some help in the form of a proper crystal and a complete service. I carried it up to Fort Worth to "take the cure."

It was ready a few weeks back. I knew I had an ophthalmologist appointment coming up on Tuesday the 24th mere blocks from the shop so waited until then to stop in for it. It was all wound and set and ticking nicely so I poked it into the watch pocket of my jeans and came home. No cautionary chain or lanyard attached.

I hauled it out a few times that afternoon to consult it for time and to just bond with it a bit. Came to be bedtime and I was carrying the jeans down the hall, forgetting about the watch in the pocket, but soon reminded by a clattering racket as the watch struck the tiled floor after an estimated 3 1/2 foot fall.

I was heartsick. It was lying face down on the floor and I fully expected the poor thing to have grenaded in the collision with the tile. Balance staff, dial, and new glass crystal all ruined.

I picked it up and turned it over and examined it. It was still running, the dial was whole, the crystal undamaged. I laid it on top of the gun safe and went to bed.

Next morning it was still ticking merrily. Here, nearly three days later it is still running and still on the same minute with the computer's clock. I'll run it until next Tuesday to see if it strays.

Have you ever had a pocket watch survive a heavy blow unscathed? How tough are these things?

No watches were harmed in this recreated depiction of the event.

Buy a lotto ticket ( or 3 ) certainly cheaper than indulging this PW destruction drop testing and potentially far more rewarding than having to repair costing far more than the value of the PW.

I can well imagine the cold sweat you broke out in realising what had hit the floor, the gods were merciful in this instance.

TexOmega · Sep 28, 2024

noelekal
Pocket Watch Durability?

I must confess that I did "that which was evil" Tuesday night before bed and shamefully abused a poor pocket watch.

I had picked up an Illinois Electric Railway Standard from off Ebay a month or two back. Of late I have been interested in gathering in a few trolley/interurban pocket watches.

So, this Illinois example proved to require some help in the form of a proper crystal and a complete service. I carried it up to Fort Worth to "take the cure."

It was ready a few weeks back. I knew I had an ophthalmologist appointment coming up on Tuesday the 24th, mere blocks from the shop so waited until then to stop in for it. It was all wound and set and ticking nicely so I poked it into the watch pocket of my jeans and came home. No cautionary chain or lanyard attached.

I hauled it out a few times that afternoon to consult it for time and to just bond with it a bit. Came to be bedtime and I was carrying the jeans down the hall, forgetting about the watch in the pocket, but soon reminded by a clattering racket as the watch struck the tiled floor after an estimated 3 1/2 foot fall.

I was heartsick. It was lying face down on the floor and I fully expected the poor thing to have grenaded in the collision with the tile. Balance staff, dial, and new glass crystal all ruined.

I picked it up and turned it over and examined it. It was still running, the dial was whole, the crystal undamaged. I laid it on top of the gun safe and went to bed.

Next morning it was still ticking merrily. Here, nearly three days later it is still running and still on the same minute with the computer's clock. I'll run it until next Tuesday to see if it strays.

Have you ever had a pocket watch survive a heavy blow unscathed? How tough are these things?

No watches were harmed in this recreated depiction of the event.

A cautionary tale for the need to plan ahead😵‍💫 and engage @DaveK or @Duracuir1 and have a few leather lanyards at hand.

And IF your case is un-dented AND the dial is unscathed and intact, a trip to Vegus may be in order.

Very nice watch!!

noelekal · Sep 28, 2024

Note to self. If I don't want to have to send the primo pocket watches to Canada for safe keeping then I need to only wear them with appropriate lanyards or chains.

DaveK and Duracuir1 lanyards are on hand here and preferred over chains for general pocket watch toting here, however I had none with me when I picked up the watch from the watch shop.

SOG53 · Sep 29, 2024

Waltham model 1883
15J. 18s case coin silver
c 1886