Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Duracuir1 · Nov 30, 2023

TexOmega
@Duracuir1 made me 3 lanyards with silver hardware when I wear WG or WGfilled PWs.

Wearing the forest in suede with my Illinois 161A Bunn

others are crimson and blue

Looks good sir. That green one is heavy duty. You could use it for rappelling… but better if you don’t.

noelekal · Nov 30, 2023

I like the green lanyard. I am attracted to green leather for some reason. Don't have shoes or belts to go with it. DaveK sent me one of his mystery lanyards in dark green and it looks special on a yellow gold cased Illinois Sangamo Special.

The Duracur1 lanyard looks great too done in green.

Canuck · Dec 4, 2023

This little confection belonged to my wife’s late grandmother. It was purchased in San Francisco circa 1895. Excellent all through, except for the vitreous enamel dial. The story goes that she was wearing the watch when her horse threw her. It is a 11-jewel, 6-size Elgin in a gold filled hunter case. You will see that the case shows 4 colours of gold. Yellow, pink, white, and green. Her ladyship is attending a luncheon at a fancy golf club with a number of her friends, and she will wear the Elgin. She wears it on a 24-inch, 10-karat, heavy box link chain (22-grams). Here is the pocketwatchdatabase blurb on the movement which was made circa 1893.
https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/4645744

Bernhard J · Dec 4, 2023

Nice!

It should be possible to make these hairlines nearly unvisible.

Canuck · Dec 4, 2023

Bernhard J
Nice!

It should be possible to make these hairlines nearly unvisible.

The watch will need to be serviced in the next while. I serviced it about 30 years ago, and I don’t remember how hard I tried to hide the hairlines.

Bernhard J · Dec 4, 2023

After 30 years hairlines "reappear" to some extent. One of my first pocket watches was a Longines with a dail having hairlines. I gave it a service back then and the hairlines could be made almost invisible, but have reappeared to some extent in the past decades since.

I recall treating/cleaning the dial with an alkaline aequous solution. Most of what you see as a hairline is dirt and corrosion products of the metal substate surfacing throught the actual hairline crack.

Canuck · Dec 4, 2023

Bernhard J
After 30 years hairlines "reappear" to some extent. One of my first pocket watches was a Longines with a dail having hairlines. I gave it a service back then and the hairlines could be made almost invisible, but have reappeared to some extent in the past decades since.

I recall treating/cleaning the dial with an alkaline aequous solution. Most of what you see as a hairline is dirt and corrosion products of the metal substate surfacing throught the actual hairline crack.

I have found over the years that, while many enamel dials have black vitreous enamel numerals and chapter rings, once in a while, you will find the maker’s name on the dial has been applied with black India ink! Efforts to disguise hairlines can result in obliterating the maker’s name. That is not a problem with this Elgin. I will show a Mido wrist watch in my collection where this was a problem! Notice the sloppy lettering near the bottom of the dial! When it comes to “improving” dials, when choosing more or less effort, less is usually better!

S.H. · Dec 4, 2023

Just took a chance on this one: I'll see when it arrives if it is a dud and what is the case material (steel or white nickel)... Likely a Moeris 19h with a central second in a Borgel front loading case. Uncommon bird.

ghce · Dec 4, 2023

Canuck
I have found over the years that, while many enamel dials have black vitreous enamel numerals and chapter rings, once in a while, you will find the maker’s name on the dial has been applied with black India ink! Efforts to disguise hairlines can result in obliterating the maker’s name. That is not a problem with this Elgin. I will show a Mido wrist watch in my collection where this was a problem! Notice the sloppy lettering near the bottom of the dial! When it comes to “improving” dials, when choosing more or less effort, less is usually better!

I have seen elsewhere online of dials being suspended in a Steradent solution for a few hours (overnight) to make those dentures oops dials whiter than white and of course make the hairlines invisible too.

Alpha · Dec 6, 2023

Taking up some desk space today,

One of our daughters presented me with the little Christmas car yesterday 😀

CBM1590 · Dec 8, 2023

Ernest B Allen Port Elgin, N B pocket watch, Sovereign marked case, intricately designed movement. Made in Waltham, Mass. I can’t find anything in my searching. Any experts here have any idea of the watch background or potential production year range etc?

Canuck · Dec 8, 2023

The listing in the pocketwatchdatabase site for this s# calls the Waltham as fitting in with a “mixed run”. In other words, the listing is no help whatsoever in nailing down the calibre of the subject watch as there are numerous different models included in the run. Further research leads to identify the particular subject watch as possibly being an 1890 model. Hunter cased, 6-size, 15-jewels, made circa 1908! To add to the confusion, searching the s# indicated a manufacturing date of circa 1881! The basic plate layout of the subject watch was used frequently by Waltham in numerous grades from different time periods. Note that the listing included states grade assorted, model assorted. I counted at least 4 different grades with that same plate layout, including one 14-size model from 1884. The subject watch is what is known as a “private label” which means the retailer paid extra to have him name on the dial. The watch is unusual because the movement is also engraved with his name.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/17162372

CBM1590 · Dec 8, 2023

Canuck
The listing in the pocketwatchdatabase site for this s# calls the Waltham as fitting in with a “mixed run”. In other words, the listing is no help whatsoever in nailing down the calibre of the subject watch as there are numerous different models included in the run. Further research leads to identify the particular subject watch as possibly being an 1890 model. Hunter cased, 6-size, 15-jewels. To add to the confusion, searching the s# indicated a manufacturing date of circa 1881! The basic plate layout of the subject watch was used frequently by Waltham in numerous grades from different time periods. I counted at least 4 different grades with that same plate layout, including one 14-size model from 1884. The subject watch is what is known as a “private label” which means the retailer paid extra to have him name on the dial. The watch is unusual because the movement is also engraved with his name.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/17162372

Think I may purchase this one then. It struck my fancy when I saw it. Always game for the obscure, especially when the price is right…meaning pretty low. Thanks for the information, Sir!

Duracuir1 · Dec 8, 2023

CBM1590
Ernest B Allen Port Elgin, N B pocket watch, Sovereign marked case, intricately designed movement. Made in Waltham, Mass. I can’t find anything in my searching. Any experts here have any idea of the watch background or potential production year range etc?

My sister lives near Port Elgin New Brunswick. But not close enough to buy the watch. Looks nice though.

CBM1590 · Dec 8, 2023

Canuck
The listing in the pocketwatchdatabase site for this s# calls the Waltham as fitting in with a “mixed run”. In other words, the listing is no help whatsoever in nailing down the calibre of the subject watch as there are numerous different models included in the run. Further research leads to identify the particular subject watch as possibly being an 1890 model. Hunter cased, 6-size, 15-jewels, made circa 1908! To add to the confusion, searching the s# indicated a manufacturing date of circa 1881! The basic plate layout of the subject watch was used frequently by Waltham in numerous grades from different time periods. Note that the listing included states grade assorted, model assorted. I counted at least 4 different grades with that same plate layout, including one 14-size model from 1884. The subject watch is what is known as a “private label” which means the retailer paid extra to have him name on the dial. The watch is unusual because the movement is also engraved with his name.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/17162372

The diameter of the watch is approximately 38mm. Have no idea what size that makes it (you mentioned a 6-size and a 14-size).
EDIT: That should put it at a size 10, evidently a common size manufactured for American companies.

Canuck · Dec 8, 2023

CBM1590
The diameter of the watch is approximately 38mm. Have no idea what size that makes it (you mentioned a 6-size and a 14-size).
EDIT: That should put it at a size 10, evidently a common size manufactured for American companies.

It certainly could be a10-size considering the diameter. My reference (Shugart, Engel, & Gilbert) doesn’t show that plate layout in a10-size. But considering that this is a Waltham, anything is possible. I am most puzzled by the pocketwatchdatabase listing showing this serial number range being made in 1908, but the serial number/date listing in Shugart shows it being made in 1881! Just goes to show how the standard reference material on occasion, is no help at all!

TexOmega · Dec 8, 2023

@Duracuir1 lanyard in crimson securing my year 1943 Hamilton 992B with US Govt stamp.

Hamilton display case

Nifty multicolored stitching👍

Canuck · Dec 8, 2023

What to do on a day when winter has hit with a vengeance, and there is a 6” accumulation of the stuff that makes Christmas white, and you are recovering from oral surgery the day before? You play with watches like so many others appear to be doing.

How often is it that you pick up a watch you like but know little about, other than it is a Waltham. I acquired this private label 1883 model Waltham about 10 years ago. The movement is engraved Canadian Railway Time Service. 17-jewels, adjusted, stem set, 18-size. In Canada, stem set railroad standard watches were approved by some railroads. Notably, the CPR! This watch s from circa 1900.

Fairly standard stuff, until you get to the dial. This Waltham is a private label for the jeweller, G W Beall, Lindsay. Lindsay? So? Well, Lindsay Ontario. I like Canadian private label watches, a lot! But I was to discover several years ago when I bought the book on the Canadian Watchmaker’s Institute (written by Gary Fox) that operated in Toronto from about 1890 until early in the 20th century, the name Beall appeared in that book. The son of G W Beall was a student at that institute for about two years. He later was to take over the store in Lindsay, founded by his father.

I recall about 40 years ago when I attended my first NAWCC convention in Portland, Ore., you could buy ordinary grade 1883 model Walthams, in Siveroid cases, running, for around $20.00. Or several non runners for about the same price. I became rather ho hum about 1883 model Walthams. But I have come to admire the higher grade 1883 models such as this one.

I like to think that Beall junior may have worked on this watch, or perhaps even sold it! It is displayed on my leather lanyard by @Duracuir.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/9536515

CBM1590 · Dec 8, 2023

Canuck
What to do on a day when winter has hit with a vengeance, and there is a 6” accumulation of the stuff that makes Christmas white, and you are recovering from oral surgery the day before? You play with watches like so many others appear to be doing.

How often is it that you pick up a watch you like but know little about, other than it is a Waltham. I acquired this private label 1883 model Waltham about 10 years ago. The movement is engraved Canadian Railway Time Service. 17-jewels, adjusted, stem set, 18-size. In Canada, stem set railroad standard watches were approved by some railroads. Notably, the CPR! This watch s from circa 1900.

Fairly standard stuff, until you get to the dial. This Waltham is a private label for the jeweller, G W Beall, Lindsay. Lindsay? So? Well, Lindsay Ontario. I like Canadian private label watches, a lot! But I was to discover several years ago when I bought the book on the Canadian Watchmaker’s Institute (written by Gary Fox) that operated in Toronto from about 1890 until early in the 20th century, the name Beall appeared in that book. The son of G W Beall was a student at that institute for about two years. He later was to take over the store in Lindsay, founded by his father.

I recall about 40 years ago when I attended my first NAWCC convention in Portland, Ore., you could buy ordinary grade 1883 model Walthams, in Siveroid cases, running, for around $20.00. Or several non runners for about the same price. I became rather ho hum about 1883 model Walthams. But I have come to admire the higher grade 1883 models such as this one.

I like to think that Beall junior may have worked on this watch, or perhaps even sold it! It is displayed on my leather lanyard by @Duracuir.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/9536515

Sweet watch! Maybe my earlier inquiry that resulted in your digging into the private label database got your juices flowing. So…$20 many years ago. Estimate on value of that watch now (aside from your obvious attachment to a great piece)?

Heal well and soon! And enjoy the snow. I’d take some (but I don’t deal without through the winter like you do). Feel better!

EDIT: I may see if I can beg you to fix the stem on my military Hamilton pocket watch and give it a good service. And Steve @Duracuir1 does amazing work. Gonna have to see if he has time for some leather work for me at some point.

Canuck · Dec 8, 2023

CBM1590
Sweet watch! Maybe my earlier inquiry that resulted in your digging into the private label database got your juices flowing. So…$20 many years ago. Estimate on value of that watch now (aside from your obvious attachment to a great piece)?

Heal well and soon! And enjoy the snow. I’d take some (but I don’t deal without through the winter like you do). Feel better!

EDIT: I may see if I can beg you to fix the stem on my military Hamilton pocket watch and give it a good service.

The G W Beall 1883 Waltham was not a $20.00 special uncovered at an NAWCC mart? Those days of 40 years ago are long since. I bought this one from a brother collector about ten years ago, and I paid 350.00 (Cdn.) for it.