Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

csburns · Jul 10, 2023

Canuck
The pictures you included don’t show it really well, but I believe the case on your watch to be in a style called “Gallone”! That is, gun metal with gold colour trim. It appears the case is heavily worn, with the gun metal finish and gold plated trim worn off the case back.

Thanks for the analysis. The case is indeed worn, and if you hadn't mentioned gold plated trim I would never have guessed it might have been on the case. The only golden looking bit is the sublte lip used to open the case back.

csburns · Jul 10, 2023

Bernhard J
The company Muller Vaucher was founded in 1897 by Antoine Muller and Alcide Vaucher as a watch factory, and renamed in Recta SA in 1898. The accuracy of Recta watches has been recognized and certified several times, including the Geneva Seal (Poinçon de Genève). The factory also participated in chronometer competitions of the Neuchâtel Observatory. It was awarded the Grand Prix at the Barcelona Watch Fair in 1929.

The movement is nice, even though it has 7 jewels "only". But more important, it has 3 adjustments, thus qualifying as a relatively precise instrument.

So, your watch probably is an early example and restoring the movement would imo make sense. Finding a correct minute hand might need some searching. The missing bow should not be a prroblem.

Cheers, Bernhard

This is very helpful Bernard. Your comments about the number of adjustments, and their connection to precision, plus the possbility it is an early example of its kind deepens my interest in the watch. I hadn't put much thought into restoring it, but what you've written has planted the seed in my mind.

Cheers,
Colin

Canuck · Jul 10, 2023

csburns
Thanks for the analysis. The case is indeed worn, and if you hadn't mentioned gold plated trim I would never have guessed it might have been on the case. The only golden looking bit is the sublte lip used to open the case back.

You may take note that the surround of the crystal is yellow, as was the crown, and perhaps the missing bow. I think it was decorated in gallone.

ghce · Jul 10, 2023

Bought 2 Pocket watches this morning but I am being obtuse and only showing you this one 😀
You may laugh at it but its an example of a more modern incabloc movement that interested me but interestingly only seems to be a 15 jewel movement and if I hadnt spotted the movements makers symbol under the balance I might have passed it up.
Will make a very robust everyday PW with the incabloc system and who knows it might even be an accurate time keeper.

As for the other vastly more collectable PW, maybe another day when its in hand.

Canuck · Jul 10, 2023

That is the Unitas movement that is now used in Omega, Tissot, and Hamilton. Omega calibre 960, Unitas 6497, and Eta 6497 everywhere else. Also the same movement as @Mad Dog and his daughter built in the AWI class.

ghce · Jul 10, 2023

Canuck
That is the Unitas movement that is now used in Omega, Tissot, and Hamilton. Omega calibre 960, Unitas 6497, and Eta 6497 everywhere else. Also the same movement as @Mad Dog and his daughter built in the AWI class.

Yes, and really am surprised to see it in just a 15 jewel format, I would have thought a movement of this vintage would have been a minimum of 17! Horses for courses I suppose after all it hardly a high end PW.

Canuck · Jul 10, 2023

This movement is extensively copied by Chinese makers. At least yours is marked U T.

Canuck · Jul 10, 2023

According to Mikrolisk:

ghce · Jul 11, 2023

Canuck
This movement is extensively copied by Chinese makers. At least yours is marked U T.

Well hopefully they made well poised balance examples if Hamilton and other quality manufacturers were using them but I guess for their own production they would have adjusted inhouse, as I say would have been nice to see a 17J movement or 6497-2 with the higher beat rate. Though its probably not worth throwing good money at it could be an upgrade if a suitable higher grade 6497 popped up.

It was quite incidental to buying this one that the day before I had been looking on AliExpress at a Chinese mechanical PW manufacturer and had spotted these copy movement in their PW's for more than double what I paid for this fine Unitas original.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005498890498.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.27.65063c38b5e1aM&algo_pvid=39500ab2-83c2-4583-b95f-11df5fbc2662&algo_exp_id=39500ab2-83c2-4583-b95f-11df5fbc2662-14&pdp_npi=3@dis!NZD!108.29!108.29!!!65.99!!@2102111816890552620212417d076c!12000033321248214!sea!NZ!3961622&curPageLogUid=ae5FgRugMCcI

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Unitas_6497

Chinese version, those subsecond hands just look stupid, not practicle.

noelekal · Jul 11, 2023

ghce
Bought 2 Pocket watches this morning but I am being obtuse and only showing you this one 😀
You may laugh at it but its an example of a more modern incabloc movement that interested me but interestingly only seems to be a 15 jewel movement and if I hadnt spotted the movements makers symbol under the balance I might have passed it up.
Will make a very robust everyday PW with the incabloc system and who knows it might even be an accurate time keeper.

As for the other vastly more collectable PW, maybe another day when its in hand.

ghce; do you know what the letters stand for in the ES logo?

Canuck · Jul 11, 2023

noelekal
ghce; do you know what the letters stand for in the ES logo?

Maybe check out the screen grab I posted (above) for a possible explanation.

noelekal · Jul 11, 2023

Well Canuck ... I wasn't awake earlier so it didn't register in my pea-brain what I was seeing.

ghce · Jul 11, 2023

Well the latest Omega came back from service and repair today and I am well pleased as it's a lot better than I had expected given I couldn't get the case back off.

Judging by the multiplicity of service marks and their dates it was a very well cared for time peice!
Whilst it was winding and running when I got it the mainspring was broken, I'd only wound it sufficient to get it ticking.

My photos of the movement don't do it justice, this movement gleams compared to many Omega movements I have seen, looks like it just left the factory! A keeper for sure.

Canuck · Jul 11, 2023

ghce
Well the latest Omega came back from service and repair today and I am well pleased as it's a lot better than I had expected given I couldn't get the case back off.

Judging by the multiplicity of service marks and their dates it was a very well cared for time peice!
Whilst it was winding and running when I got it the mainspring was broken, I'd only wound it sufficient to get it ticking.

My photos of the movement don't do it justice, this movement gleams compared to many Omega movements I have seen, looks like it just left the factory! A keeper for sure.

The gold filled case appears to have stood up quite well. In your pictures, there is no brass showing. Since the cost of servicing the watches people collect comes out of the total budget available for collecting watches, it is important to try to avoid watches that appear as though they will be costly to service.

One I sold last year is an example. An 18-size, 15-jewel Elgin in a crummy case but with a perfect single-sunk 24-hour, vitreous enamel dial. I fixed it up to add to my collection, but a friend fell in love with it, so it is gone! The watch needed a balance staff, foot hole jewel in its setting, mainspring, conditioning, a seconds hand, and a better case. I had on hand a new balance staff, foot-hole jewel, mainspring (all genuine NOS), I had a glass (not acrylic) crystal, suitable hands, and a donor watch with a much nicer case. If someone had brought that this to me in such sad condition, and asked me for an estimate to resurrect it, the watch would not have been worth what I would have quoted! The parts cost me very little, (under $25.00), and I had the time, so I wasn’t out of pocket for labor. I have shown this Elgin numerous times in this thread. Basically the price I sold it for was the price I would have quoted for the repair, so my friend reimbursed me for the repair, and I threw in the watch! I enjoyed it while I had it, and he loves it!

ghce · Jul 11, 2023

Yes that was my main worry with this one that the cost of repair would be more than the value of the watch but as its turned out the value exceeds the repair cost by a good margin. shame about the dial damage but it is pretty minor and if another perfect dial turned up at reasonable cost I would replace it but not really necessary.

My photos must have a bit of a golden tinge to them, haven't really decided what the case is yet, its possibly stainless but more likely nickel with the inside dust cover plated silver.
I am going with nickel as the slight discolouration on the bezel polished out with a jewellery wipe.

Its been a bit odd on the local auction site that this one came off with more than 25 Omega PW in various levels of distress appearing in the last month from 3 or 4 different sellers (antique and dealers shops) but this one appears to have come via a private seller.

All of them have been for ridiculously cheap prices and selling at the 50 to 60 dollar mark, I had considered buying a few up for parts but at the end of the day I am not a Swiss PW sort of guy Omega or not and these were all boring looking examples with little to excite any collecting interest ( this one included) as opposed to the Omega Chronograph I bought a little further back up the thread.

ghce · Jul 12, 2023

The current. Omega triumvirate.
All serviced and fully functional with repairs as were required.
The Chronograph required repoising the balance wheel after its initial service to get that back to accuracy standard and other minor tweaks as pointed out by Doug.
Only had these 3 about 1 month, not looking for more, PW repairs and servicing is keeping me poor I've bought at least 5 other PW's in the last month so need to slow down.

Alpha · Jul 12, 2023

Still only the two but I must confess it is becoming more and more difficult to resist the temptation to go back to the P.W. fold 😀

noelekal · Jul 12, 2023

Come on in!

The water's fine.

We try to do our best to make watch mavens dually afflicted

DrmexicoII · Jul 12, 2023

What do you PW guys do with them once you've acquired them? I'm drawn to them as my dad has a few but I just don't know what I'd do with one once I'd bought it. At least with my wrist watches I can wear one each day. My dad has his in his big glass display case with a bunch of other assorted antique stuff but a) i haven't got a display case and b) I'd want to be able to handle it and gaze at the movement occasionally. Forgive the probably stupid question but what do you guys actually do with them?

Canuck · Jul 12, 2023

I have approximately 60 pocket watches. I am involved with two groups where I live that are associated with historic railroads. My pocket watches are regularly exhibited at events sponsored by these groups. Aside from that, on most days (today included), I wear a pocket watch, along with a wrist watch. A collection of watches differs from 95 % of items that get collected. You can have a collection of watches, and actually USE them. Try that with coins, stamps, graphic art, garden gnomes, or whatever tickles your fancy. With watches, you can have your cake and eat it too!