Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

DaveK · Mar 4, 2021

Great story! I wonder why the province needed so many gopher tails?

😝

TexOmega · Mar 4, 2021

How they started.... Sears as seller, Roebuck as WM

Sears Roebuck & Co. "Special"
18s 17j Adjusted
Illinois Grade 64........... Love the Old English script for which Illinois was famous.
RR grade and approved
Y:1903

Canuck · Mar 4, 2021

At one point, Sears sold out to Roebuck, but always came back. After a time, Roebuck tired of Sears aggressive practises, and sold out to Sears, remaining as a watchmaker. Sears re-capitalized and took on new partners. One of those partners sold his shares in 1901 for 1.5 million. Meanwhile, Roebuck was still at his bench, fixing watches! He died, penniless. Once a watchmaker, always a watchmaker, I guess. Sears went on to prosper, but we all know where that ended!

By 1920, private label watches such as this one, had to have the actual maker of the watch named on the dial. Private labels were out. But some railroads accepted some Burlington railroad grade watches which were private label. Burlington was made for a catalog merchandiser, by Illinois.

Canuck · Mar 4, 2021

DaveK
Great story! I wonder why the province needed so many gopher tails?

😝

Another name for gopher is Richardson ground squirrel. The province gathered all those tails, ground them up, and sold them as hamburger!

Canuck · Mar 4, 2021

So many stories! Here’s another watch with a story. This story begins with the New York Standard Watch Co., maker and purveyors of what might be called “popular priced” watches. When the Keystone Watch Case Co. acquired the rights to market watches under the name E Howard Watch Co., they also acquired the New York Standard Watch Co., and the U S Watch Co. of Waltham. Among the models of 16-size movements produced by the New York Standard Watch Co. is this 16-size model shown herein. You may notice that this movement is marked “7 jewels”, thereby indicating it was meant ans an inexpensive (read “cheap”) watch.

For a time after the Keystone Watch Case Co. acquired the Howard name, they weren’t equipped to manufacture movements. So they started out buying movements from the Waltham Watch Co. Early Keystone Howard’s were actually made for them by Waltham. Once Keystone was set up to manufacture their own movements, they got down to business. I have four Keystone Howards, and one Edward Howard. Among my Keystone Howards is a model XI railroad chronometer. I really like this watch. It is not a model of Keystone Howard that is a grail watch among Howard collectors. Compare the picture of the movement in my Keystone Howard series XI with the New York Standard movement I showed above. After Keystone acquired NYS, it is clear (to me at least) that they based their series XI movement on a watch that had been produced by a company that made inexpensive watches (NYS). I think there must be a stigma attached to the much higher quality Keystone series XI version of this movement.

This watch was offered to me by an elderly fellow who was downsizing. This was his fathers railroad watch, and he desperately did not want to leave it to his grandson who would liquidate it to buy drugs. He didn’t know anything about the watch, so I told him what he had, and made him an offer. He was glad to see it go where it would be appreciated. It has 21-jewels, 16-size, lever set, patent micrometer regulator, 5 positions, heat, cold, isochronism, (eight adjustments), and is in its original Keystone “swing ring” case. Look closely and you will see it is clearly marked “Railroad Chronometer”. It was railroad approved in its day. It has one of my favourite dials. Another watch, another story!

Fritz · Mar 4, 2021

Canuck
The first “five and dime” stores opened in the late 1870s. Most inventory sold for between 5 cents and 10 cents. These stores tried for years to find a watch that they could sell in their stores. The Waterbury Watch Co. developed a watch they called the “Waterbury Longwind”. It was joked that you wound it by running the winding crown along a board fence as you walked. The Longwind sold for $3.50. Ingersoll Bros., a five and dime finally offered a watch for $1.50. Ingersoll finally introduced the Ingersoll Yankee that sold for $1.00. This was a mini Waterbury Clock Co. clock movement in a watch case, and it was circa 1900. The watch was called the “Ingersoll Yankee”. This is an Ingersoll Yankee. The hands are Westclox Pocket Dax. The original case paper is still inside the case back. Surprisingly, the watch still runs! The winding crown is a dummy. The watch is wound with a key. When my late father was a boy (circa 1915), our province put a bounty on gopher tails of one penny per tail. Boys would trap gophers, lop off the tails, then release the gopher to continue making babies. The province soon scrubbed the one penny bounty. My late father paid for his first dollar watch with bounty from gopher tails. Check out the guarantee!

My Dad discovered that the teacher at his schoolhouse who was responsible for collecting the gopher tails and paying out the bounty was putting them in the potbellied stove in the corner of the classroom to be burned. Since it was spring and the stove wasn't being lit all that often Dad could slip in and collect a few tails to be "resold" back for double bounty! He said that if you were a decent shot with the 22 you could turn a decent profit as bullets were a penny and tails were two cents a piece in Northern Sask.

Can you imagine turning your ten year old son loose with his buddies to go playing in the fields, each one armed with a rifle!

Canuck · Mar 4, 2021

Fritz
My Dad discovered that the teacher at his schoolhouse who was responsible for collecting the gopher tails and paying out the bounty was putting them in the potbellied stove in the corner of the classroom to be burned. Since it was spring and the stove wasn't being lit all that often Dad could slip in and collect a few tails to be "resold" back for double bounty! He said that if you were a decent shot with the 22 you could turn a decent profit as bullets were a penny and tails were two cents a piece in Northern Sask.

Can you imagine turning your ten year old son loose with his buddies to go playing in the fields, each one armed with a rifle!

Classic example of rampant inflation! My father was collecting gopher tails circa 1915, in rural Alberta. They used snares. So at a penny a tail, the process of collecting was a bit more labor intensive. But he avoided the cost of bullets.😀 Your father must have been involved in “bounty hunting” several decades later than my father was. Besides, my grandmother was a strict disciplinarian, and there would be no way there would be a gun in the house.

Fritz · Mar 4, 2021

Canuck
Classic example of rampant inflation! My father was collecting gopher tails circa 1915, in rural Alberta. They used snares. So at a penny a tail, the process of collecting was a bit more labor intensive. But he avoided the cost of bullets.😀 Your father must have been involved in “bounty hunting” several decades later than my father was. Besides, my grandmother was a strict disciplinarian, and there would be no way there would be a gun in the house.

My Dad was gunnin fer gophers in the mid thirties. He actually managed to get work on the railroad extra gang for a few weeks when he was thirteen, until the time came to show his ID for the payroll records, then he was sent packing after being told to come back next year when he was old enough. From 14 to 18 years old he spent his summers repairing and laying track for the railroad, working in the lumber camps to make his winter wages. In 1948 he joined the railroad for good, retiring from senior management 41 years later.

If you've ever seen CN engine 6060, a beautiful Mountain class steamer that currently lives in a museum on the prairies, that appeared in his log book in regular service.

The railroaders watches:

My older brother got Dad's actual Hamilton, mine is a twin I manage to track down, identical except Dad's had the inner numbers in red.

Canuck · Mar 4, 2021

My late father had a job with the CPR as an engine wiper, working at Alyth Yards, in Calgary, in 1916. Engine wipers did the scut work on the rolling stock. He was 16. Making 7 cents an hour on the night shift. He hated the job because he didn’t speak Chinese like the rest of the crew. His career with CPR was very brief!

I may have seen locomotive 6060 when it was at Jasper, Alberta. It has quite a colourful history. It was taken out of service at Stettler, Alberta, in 2012, and put into storage. Funds are being raised for its restoration.

https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/Canadian_National_No._6060

Canuck · Mar 5, 2021

Time for a “bump”, and another watch with a story.

Several years ago, Mrs C. Was perusing an on-line auction catalog, and spied an item she thought might interest me. I looked at the ad, and then went to the preview. This is what I saw! It is a Waltham Colonial, 12-size, 17-jewel watch, 14-karat gold case, in its original leatherette case, with linen sachet marked for the case manufacturer (Keystone), and outer cardboard shell. AND, it had the appearance to me as though it had never been used! It was presented to a fellow on the 25th anniversary (1912-1937) of his employment with the Winnipeg Paint & Glass Co.

The story doesn’t end there! The company was founded in 1902, and suffered a massive fire in 1907 which destroyed their building. It survived until yet another fire in 1959, at which time the Winnipeg branch folded, continuing on in its Saskatoon branch for several years. The firm no longer exists. Here is a picture taken at the time of the 1907 fire.

Every watch collection consists of, well, watches! But to me, the most interesting watches we come by, are the watches with a background story. I might just put my @DaveK lanyard on this one today as I will be out and about. I don’t normally collect many watches of this size, but I think I’m gonna enjoy this one, today.

Waltesefalcon · Mar 5, 2021

I also have an old Waltham Colonial. I'll have to go dig it up and take some photos for my next watch.

Mad Dog · Mar 5, 2021

16s railroad grade Elgin Veritas 376 [circa 1915] for Friday...

LesXL · Mar 5, 2021

My first one arrived this morning... I'm very happy with my first step into the pocket watch universe. I believe it won't be the last one.

Omega cal 38.5 L.T1 from around 1939 (as from serial number), small hairs on the dial (I understand for some it is a no-go), blue hands, and so far keeping good time.

Mr JimlnOZ did a nice thread on the movement

DaveK · Mar 5, 2021

LesXL
My first one arrived this morning... I'm very happy with my first step into the pocket watch universe. I believe it won't be the last one.

Canuck · Mar 5, 2021

DaveK

@DaveK has the right idea for @LesXL . Wear a mask, or you could become infected ( my spouse calls it inflicted) with the dreaded pocket watch virus! My collection comprises more wrist watches than pocket watches. But really, I find the pocket watch part of my collection much more interesting!

Thanks to @Mad Dog for yet another stellar contribution to our thread. Mrs. Mad Dog has strict orders to always have a fresh pair of newly laundered jeans, just for when he gets his camera out. Rumour has it that she even IRONS his jeans😁.

Fritz · Mar 5, 2021

Canuck
@DaveK has the right idea for @LesXL . Wear a mask, or you could become infected ( my spouse calls it inflicted) with the dreaded pocket watch virus! My collection comprises more wrist watches than pocket watches. But really, I find the pocket watch part of my collection much more interesting!

Thanks to @Mad Dog for yet another stellar contribution to our thread. Mrs. Mad Dog has strict orders to always have a fresh pair of newly laundered jeans, just for when he gets his camera out. Rumour has it that she even IRONS his jeans😁.

I’ve heard she once ironed them whist he was still wearing them, something about one too many Hooters postings.

Canuck · Mar 5, 2021

@lex

LesXL
My first one arrived this morning... I'm very happy with my first step into the pocket watch universe. I believe it won't be the last one.

Omega cal 38.5 L.T1 from around 1939 (as from serial number), small hairs on the dial (I understand for some it is a no-go), blue hands, and so far keeping good time.

Mr JimlnOZ did a nice thread on the movement

@LesXL ,

A high percentage of watches of the vintage of your Omega had vitreous enamel dials on them. Basically, opaque glass powder sifted onto a copper substrate, and fired in a kiln at about 1200° F for about an hour. The glass particles melted into a molten state, ad flowed smoothly over the copper surface, leaving what is called a “vitreous lustre”.The dial was allowed to cool, then the numerals, minutes chapter ring, and name were either stencilled, silk screened, or pad printed using finely powdered black glass, and the dial fired again. Then the dial was mounted off centre in a lathe, and using a diamond cutter, a hole was cut for the seconds bit. It was produced just like the dial was. Then, the seconds bit was placed behind the dial, in the opening, and soldered in with bismuth solder which has a low melting point. In several hundred years, a vitreous enamel dial won’t change..........unless the watch is dropped! The enamel is brittle, and can crack. No shame in having hairlines in the enamel dial. If the watch was a car, it could have several hundred thousand miles on it. Stuff happens! If anybody ever pooh poohs you’re Omega, tell ‘em to write their opinions on paper, and put it where the sun don’t shine! No shame! Many of us have watches with hairlines in the dials, and we cherish the watches, anyway. (I have a 104 year old Waltham Crescent Street that is far worse than your Omega, and I cherish it for the story it tells.)

LesXL · Mar 5, 2021

Canuck
@lex

@LesXL ,

A high percentage of watches of the vintage of your Omega had vitreous enamel dials on them. Basically, opaque glass power sifted onto a copper substrate, and fired in a kiln at about 1200° F for about an hour. The glass particles melted into a molten state, ad flowed smoothly over the copper surface, leaving what is called a “vitreous lustre”.The dial was allowed to cool, then the numerals, minutes chapter ring, and name were either stencilled, silk screened, or pad printed using finely powdered black glass, and the dial fired again. Then the dial was mounted off centre in a lathe, and using a diamond cutter, a hole was cut for the seconds bit. It was produced just like the dial was. Then, the seconds bit was placed behind the dial, in the opening, and soldered in with bismuth solder which has a low melting point. In several hundred years, a vitreous enamel dial won’t change..........unless the watch is dropped! The enamel is brittle, and can crack. No shame in having hairlines in the enamel dial. If the watch was a car, it could have several hundred thousand miles on it. Stuff happens! If anybody ever pooh poohs you’re Omega, tell ‘em to write their opinions on paper, and put it where the sun don’t shine! No shame! Many of us have watches with hairlines in the dials, and we cherish the watches, anyway. (I have a 104 year old Waltham Crescent Street that is far worse than your Omega, and I cherish it for the story it tells.)

Thanks so much for the very interesting explanation on the dial fabrication and encouragement on my invitation to the Dark Side! This thread should actually be pinned *hint hint*

I actually do like the hairlines, it reminds me of faïence tiles with cracks that is something I really like.

Obviously, I wouldn't say not to a totally clean dial 😀

I, now, need to find a nice lanyard... I wonder who could help with that? (@DaveK )

I shall continue my reading of the thread to get better knowledge on any potential future acquisition.

Canuck · Mar 5, 2021

Here is the heavily hairlined dial on my Waltham Crescent Street. This watch began its service in 1918, as the only watch used by its original owner who retired as a locomotive engineer with the CPR, after working for them for 45 years. I have shown the watch, and also a printout showing 32 repairs the watch had over those 45 years. Over those years, the record shows that the watch had about 5 new balance staffs, and numerous occasions where pivots were repaired, and the balance wheel trued. The hairlines on this dial are a badge of honour, and mute evidence of the job this watch did for the owner, over all those years! He dropped his watch LOTS! Who fixes anything 32 times, now-a-days? This isn’t just a watch, it is a symbol! I love it, and it is now mine!

Notice, four balance staffs between March of 1930, and December of 1931! Whew! See what I mean about the stories pocket watches can tell?

LesXL · Mar 5, 2021

Canuck
Here is the heavily hairlined dial on my Waltham Crescent Street. This watch began its service in 1918, as the only watch used by its original owner who retired as a locomotive engineer with the CPR, after working for them for 45 years. I have shown the watch, and also a printout showing 32 repairs the watch had over those 45 years. Over those years, the record shows that the watch had about 5 new balance staffs, and numerous occasions where pivots were repaired, and the balance wheel trued. The hairlines on this dial are a badge of honour, and mute evidence of the job this watch did for the owner, over all those years! He dropped his watch LOTS! Who fixes anything 32 times, now-a-days? This isn’t just a watch, it is a symbol! I love it, and it is now mine!

Notice, four balance staffs between March of 1930, and December of 1931! Whew! See what I mean about the stories pocket watches can tell?

Great watch and quite astonishing to have all the details of its (hospital) life.