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Buying via PayPal F&F

62caster
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So I found a grail that I’m after, agreed to a price with the seller, and he only wants to accept PayPal friends and family.

I know with some of the more recent tax weirdness, a lot of folks are going this way. I’ve been scammed before, so my rule of thumb from then on was always pay with buyer protection.

I’m very conflicted, the seller (who is on another forum) has tons of great reviews, but it’s always a little nerve-racking to send a lot of money to somebody. After all, all they have to lose is their online presence. Seems like there are folks who might be willing to forgo their online reputation for a few thousand dollars.

Any advice?
 
ErichKeane
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F&F is obviously quite risky, as you realized. You have zero recourse if the watch isn't as described, is scamming you/etc. So it is up to you to decide whether that is worth the risk. IF it is obtainable elsewhere, I'd probably suggest getting it from someone else.

That said, even if you DO decide to trust him, MAKE SURE the paypal name matches everything you know about them! It is reasonably common for accounts to be hacked on many forums, and people to scam using 'trusted' names.
 
blufinz52
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I think you can pay with a CC when sending money F&F. Paypal will charge you a percentage, but you will at least have some protection with your CC company.
 
ErichKeane
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blufinz52 blufinz52
I think you can pay with a CC when sending money F&F. Paypal will charge you a percentage, but you will at least have some protection with your CC company.
Unfortunately if you actually have to USE that, paypal will ban you for life, and you risk paypal coming after you for the money in court. Not sure it is worth THAT part of risk.
 
dsio
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If you're going to use PayPal, best do it the right way and have protection, if you're going to risk it without protection, do so with care and use whatever method is cheapest since you'll have no real recourse either way, the CC method does kind of work in some countries but as @ErichKeane mentions, its risky and you will be banned from PayPal after it so it only works once.
 
Evitzee
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As always, buy the seller. I've wired money to people in foreign countries with zero recourse if the deal ended up going sideways, and I've had buyers wire me money in the same way. If you don't have the confidence by talking to the seller and having your questions answered, don't proceed. One thing I have learned is many people can be overly cautious no matter how many references you give or questions you answer. Some just can't over the hump of wiring funds or paying for an expensive item via established payment methods. You could always ask for payment via Goods and Services and split the added protection cost with the seller. If he's adamant that he wants to go F&F and you aren't comfortable, walk.
 
Porteroso
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It may be worth it to you to just pay the extra 2.5% or whatever it is. I certainly would, if I didn't know the person.
 
ErichKeane
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Porteroso Porteroso
It may be worth it to you to just pay the extra 2.5% or whatever it is. I certainly would, if I didn't know the person.
Honestly, some sellers are unwilling to take G&S, and not because of the fee: But because Paypal will side with the buyer 99% of the time. It results in an easy way to lose your watch, and get no money for it. So they like to be in control of deciding when you get a refund.
 
Porteroso
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ErichKeane ErichKeane
Honestly, some sellers are unwilling to take G&S, and not because of the fee: But because Paypal will side with the buyer 99% of the time. It results in an easy way to lose your watch, and get no money for it. So they like to be in control of deciding when you get a refund.
True. But I would still ask, if it would make the sale happen.

I've wired money 3 times now to forum members, all 3 were in foreign countries. It was a bit scary, but unless it's a huge purchase, you just have to accept the risk that you'll get burned. Buy the seller is always great advice, but it's just never a 100% thing when you buy from someone the first time.
Edited:
 
Dan S
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From a seller's perspective, Paypal goods and services can be exploited for charge-back fraud. So it's not only taxes, but also fraudulent buyers.

Ultimately, it comes down to who trusts whom more, who is more reputable/credible, and who has the leverage. If the seller is well established online and trusted by other buyers, there's probably a reason for it, and he doesn't need to compromise. If you don't take his terms, he will find another buyer.
 
pdxleaf
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Porteroso Porteroso
True. But I would still ask, if it would make the sale happen.

I've wired money 3 times now to forum members, all 3 were in foreign countries. It was a bit scary, but unless it's a huge purchase, you just have to accept the risk that you'll get burned. Buy the seller is always great advice, but it's just never a 100% thing when you buy from someone the first time.
Have you talked to him on the phone? It's not fool-proof but talking to someone about how they got into watches can calm those jitters. If you still have nerves then maybe wait for another watch.
 
Porteroso
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Have you talked to him on the phone? It's not fool-proof but talking to someone about how they got into watches can calm those jitters. If you still have nerves then maybe wait for another watch.
Well, I'm not OP, but I do think that's excellent advice.
 
Larry S
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Only use FF if you know and trust the other party. I have used this method many times but only with established members.
 
62caster
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Have you talked to him on the phone? It's not fool-proof but talking to someone about how they got into watches can calm those jitters. If you still have nerves then maybe wait for another watch.
I have. We had a good conversation. I still can’t get over sending $2k though. He could decide it’s his last deal he wants to do in his watch journey, take my money, and never return to Internet forums. Unlikely, but possible.
 
ibis888
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At some point you just have to trust people. If the seller has good references and there are no warning signs, it’s unlikely a perviously reputable seller will just decide to scam you and ruin his reputation over $2k.

There’s always a risk though and you could just go to an established dealer to mitigate most of it.. at an added markup most of the time.
 
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