Breaking grease

[sheepdoll]

Back when I worked on the automatics in the 1990s I never heard of breaking grease for the mainspring bridle.

I tried looking this up online, and I can not seem to find the part number to look for at oFrei or the other material houses.

Breaking grease does not seem to return the results I would expect. Not sure if I am spelling it right or what it is really called.

I suspect it is some sort of mobius number.

 

[JimInOz]

Braking, as in slowing or stopping, not breaking that happens when braking doesn't work properly.



See Mobius 9500

https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/sites/default/files/security_sheet/tinf_9500_en.pdf

 

[sheepdoll]

Interesting.
Does not seem to be widley available.
OFrei is sort of snarky in their listing. I do not think they like being cut out of the distrubution chain.




I did get the little kit they sell a few years ago.

The question remains. I never heard of this 30 years ago. Is this then more used on the modern watches which are CNC made?

My mentor used to complain there was too much lead in the brass, to make it easy to machine automatically, for some of it to last. (I think that was more in clocks)

Would it be a sin then to use 9504? which is supposed to be for metal to metal sliding friction. Or is it better to simply leave it as it was?

I could but a few junked landerons or AS movements for the price they are asking.

 

[Archer]

sheepdoll

Back when I worked on the automatics in the 1990s I never heard of breaking grease for the mainspring bridle.

It's been in use for longer than that...

Personally I would recommend Kluber P125 Chronogrease

 

[Poppyboy]

Marshall on Wristwatch Revival uses Moebius 9501.

 

[JimInOz]

I just checked to see what I use.



https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/sites/default/files/security_sheet/tinf_8217_en_0.pdf

Available from Esslinger and at USD$2.00 per gram, much cheaper than the Kluber at USD$27 per gram.

https://www.esslinger.com/moebius-8217-watch-barrel-grease-20ml-bottle/

I understand why Al uses Kluber and recommends it, but we're not all professional watchmakers using a lot of consumables, so horses for courses.

 

[noless]

I use Kluber P125 as well,

there is a seiko braking grease as well which is much cheaper, but i have no experience with it. the key ingredient in P125 is molybdenum if i recall correctly, while the seiko one is graphite, so how that affects wear characteristics you can start arguments over...

 

[Archer]

JimInOz

I just checked to see what I use.



https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/sites/default/files/security_sheet/tinf_8217_en_0.pdf

Available from Esslinger and at USD$2.00 per gram, much cheaper than the Kluber at USD$27 per gram.

https://www.esslinger.com/moebius-8217-watch-barrel-grease-20ml-bottle/

I understand why Al uses Kluber and recommends it, but we're not all professional watchmakers using a lot of consumables, so horses for courses.

I have 8217 and do use it from time to time, when I find that the P125 is too strong. But for most applications, P125 is excellent.

You will generally get lower amplitude with the 8217, all else equal.

 

[ScrewDropper]

noless

I use Kluber P125 as well,

there is a seiko braking grease as well which is much cheaper, but i have no experience with it. the key ingredient in P125 is molybdenum if i recall correctly, while the seiko one is graphite, so how that affects wear characteristics you can start arguments over...

It's called S4. I have some and use it on Seiko rebuilds. It's very good but also very sticky and messy. It's used on the barrel and the automatic pawl

I also have some of the Kluber but that is very expensive and I only use it when the technical guide specifically calls for it

 

[ketiljo]

How does 8213 compare to these, less strong? Supposedly to be used on brass barrels.

Edited: Apr 22, 2024

 

[ScrewDropper]

ketiljo

How does 8213 compare to these, less strong? Supposedly to be used on brass barrels.

Not sure about 8213, I've never used it. My go to for automatic barrels is 8217, I use the S4 for Seiko and Kluber when it is specifically recommended in the tech guide. For manual watches, I use 8200

 

[JimInOz]

ScrewDropper

...................... For manual watches, I use 8200..............

Where do manual movements require braking grease?

 

[sheepdoll]

I wound up using 9501, since it is something I have on hand.
Three tiny dots on the side of the barrel.

 

[RonP]

@Al: If you have a worn inside of a barrel and can not get a proper one, do you think a bit of extra P115 will remedy this wear enough?

Or alternatively, coul you explain, elaborate of how you restore this inside, thw all of the drum

I appreciate your advice here greatly.

Thanks .

 

[Archer]

R RonP

@Al: If you have a worn inside of a barrel and can not get a proper one, do you think a bit of extra P115 will remedy this wear enough?

Or alternatively, coul you explain, elaborate of how you restore this inside, thw all of the drum

I appreciate your advice here greatly.

Thanks .

New drum is the ideal solution first of all - no doubt about that.

But if you cannot get one, if you find that the spring is slipping too easily, adding a little extra grease could help. However adding too much is going to risk getting grease all over the outer coils of the spring, and that will not help with amplitude and running time.

How much wear inside the drum will affect the performance is partly dependent on the design of the inside of the drum. If the barrel doesn't have notches (some don't), then it won't have a huge impact on performance. If it has subtle notches like the older Omega 550 barrels for example, again the wear won't affect performance a lot, and that is where maybe some extra grease might help.

On a modern barrel with very sharp notches, when those get worn the only real solution is a new drum in my experience.

 

[RonP]

Hi Al,

Thank you. Yes on modern ETA movement I always (yes really) replace the barel complete with mainspring. It is for the older one, like you said f.e. the 550 you can not order new one anymore, and in the past few years quite expensive for just a barrel. I believe today Omega only mentions “reclycled” on their extranet, but not available anymore for this type of movement (cal 565).
So I was wondering how is refurbishing done, in the lathe and turn the wall smooth again and make it calibrated rough with f.e. a sanding paper equivalent of grid 800?

thanks,

Ron.

 

[Archer]

R RonP

Hi Al,

Thank you. Yes on modern ETA movement I always (yes really) replace the barel complete with mainspring. It is for the older one, like you said f.e. the 550 you can not order new one anymore, and in the past few years quite expensive for just a barrel. I believe today Omega only mentions “reclycled” on their extranet, but not available anymore for this type of movement (cal 565).

The barrel is shown as still available - 72205501200. It's not cheap because you have to buy a new drum, cover, and arbor, even if you only need the drum.

R RonP

So I was wondering how is refurbishing done, in the lathe and turn the wall smooth again and make it calibrated rough with f.e. a sanding paper equivalent of grid 800?

thanks,

Ron.

I've never tried to do this, so you will have top let us all know what you find that works.

 

[Canuck]

Archer

The barrel is shown as still available - 72205501200. It's not cheap because you have to buy a new drum, cover, and arbor, even if you only need the drum.



I've never tried to do this, so you will have top let us all know what you find that works.

It works! I’ve done it! (On an Omega of my own.)

 

[ExpiredWatchdog]

ScrewDropper

Not sure about 8213, I've never used it. My go to for automatic barrels is 8217, I use the S4 for Seiko and Kluber when it is specifically recommended in the tech guide. For manual watches, I use 8200

I did an experiment with Kluber 125 and three Mobius greases that were recommended (quite a while ago) https://www.watchuseek.com/posts/52066530/. A few posts down I describe the same experiment with the Mobius greases. Not terribly quantitative but they give you a feeling.