Boeing 737 Max Aircraft - Would You Fly On One?

[Vercingetorix]

Main issue is non union labor. Union labor can raise safety issues without fear of repercussions.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Vercingetorix

Main issue is non union labor. Union labor can raise safety issues without fear of repercussions.

Seems I’m wrong, at least the Spirit Aero part, maybe. They were on strike last year.

 

[Evitzee]

Interesting article in today's Wall Street Journal based on facts. There hasn't been a fatal crash among the major US airlines in over 15 years, that's 100 million flights and 10 billion passengers. The chances of dying in a plane crash are roughly equal to getting hit by lightning while reading this sentence.

From the WSJ:

"The country’s safety record would have sounded not just incredible or inconceivable 15 years ago, but completely insane.

“I never would’ve believed it,” said William Voss, the former head of the Flight Safety Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy group.

This revolution in the sky that has saved countless lives began nearly three decades ago with a surprisingly innovative strategy for improving air safety. It depended on pilots, flight attendants and dispatchers voluntarily reporting safety issues and admitting their own errors. But first it demanded the entire industry agree to a profound shift in risk tolerance.

The old system explained accidents after they happened. This new system was designed to prevent those accidents from ever happening.

And it worked. The Federal Aviation Administration’s self-reporting programs that encourage airline operators to come forward without fear of retribution helped slash the rate of fatal accidents on U.S. airlines by such large percentages that the industry had to figure out new ways to measure safety. This unprecedented stretch without a deadly crash made the existing stats essentially useless.

The U.S. aviation system has become so amazingly, unexpectedly safe that other industries in the business of fatal risk, from healthcare to artificial intelligence, are hoping to bring lessons of the sky back to hospitals and research labs on the ground."

--------------------------

The system is currently under stress, especially in air traffic control, and that needs our attention now, but getting squirmy about riding in a Boeing 737 Max plane seems a little over the top.

 

[spacemission]

I prefer airbus.

 

[DoctorEvil]

Thankfully there were no lives lost on the Alaska Airlines flight. It reminded me of a much more serious incident of explosive decompression which occurred on 28th April 1988, on Aloha Airlines flight 243. More details in the link below.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/sc...s-miracle-landing/BDV7QVFFX2K23KKZDEOUWZGI54/

 

[BlackTalon]

Perfect way to fly in the tropics. It's like cruising around south Florida in a convertible.

 

[gbesq]

The fact that the pilots were actually able to fly and land Aloha Airlines flight 243 after an explosive decompression and with a large section of the upper fuselage missing is a testament not only to the skill of the pilots but also to the quality of the construction of the aircraft. If memory serves, the aircraft was a Boeing 737-200 series.

 

[Tony C.]

Evitzee

Interesting article in today's Wall Street Journal based on facts. There hasn't been a fatal crash among the major US airlines in over 15 years, that's 100 million flights and 10 billion passengers. The chances of dying in a plane crash are roughly equal to getting hit by lightning while reading this sentence.

Surely it would be more pertinent to calculate the odds based solely on the 737-Max planes, no? The country of origin is irrelevant, and there have been two fatal crashes.

It may not be easy to find how many flights there have been, or the total number of passengers, but the stats would be far more accurate.

 

[Archer]

DoctorEvil

Thankfully there were no lives lost on the Alaska Airlines flight. It reminded me of a much more serious incident of explosive decompression which occurred on 28th April 1988, on Aloha Airlines flight 243. More details in the link below.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/sc...s-miracle-landing/BDV7QVFFX2K23KKZDEOUWZGI54/

The first time I flew to Australia was not long after this. On the way back, one of my wife's aunts had decided to come to Canada for a visit. She was terrified of flying and one of the in country flights was booked on a 737. The night before she apparently woke up from a nightmare imagining that this happened on the flight we were taking the next day. She was shaking for that whole one hour flight...

 

[Tayne]

Tony C.

Surely it would be more pertinent to calculate the odds based solely on the 737-Max planes, no? The country of origin is irrelevant, and there have been two fatal crashes.

It may not be easy to find how many flights there have been, or the total number of passengers, but the stats would be far more accurate.

You’d really want to figure out all the 737 Max flight totals and then compare to a similar time period and total flights, either for other aircraft or for the whole industry.

Because it’s a relatively new plane, has had two fatal crashes and the period it’s been flying for involved the reduction in travel during covid the numbers will look worse for the Max.

But my simple solution is just to avoid flying on one and then review that policy in a few years.
If there’s been no more crashes, incidents, cover ups or scary revelations then I’ll stop avoiding it.

This sounds like it might inconvenience me but I don’t think there’s that many of them that I might need or want to fly on.

Even looking back over the past few years I’ve not been on one…Except I might have!

I was a on flight from Istanbul to Edinburgh which was delayed on the tarmac and then turned back after 20mins flight. I’ve just checked now and Turkish Airlines do have 737Max8 and 9 planes.

How do I find out what aircraft I was in back in October?

 

[MRC]

Tayne

How do I find out what aircraft I was in back in October?

Flightradar24 in playback mode should find it. I don't know if the free website allows playback but the Silver subscription definitely does.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ or app for smartphones. Alternatively PM me with flight details and I'll check.

 

[Twocats]

DoctorEvil

Thankfully there were no lives lost on the Alaska Airlines flight. It reminded me of a much more serious incident of explosive decompression which occurred on 28th April 1988, on Aloha Airlines flight 243. More details in the link below.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/sc...s-miracle-landing/BDV7QVFFX2K23KKZDEOUWZGI54/

Much less happy outcomes from a similar scenario:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_781

Not an explosive decompression but a rapid decompression that rendered the aircraft un-flyable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Flight_123

 

[Twocats]

Tony C.

Surely it would be more pertinent to calculate the odds based solely on the 737-Max planes, no? The country of origin is irrelevant, and there have been two fatal crashes.

It may not be easy to find how many flights there have been, or the total number of passengers, but the stats would be far more accurate.

Check out https://avherald.com/ . This is my morning coffee website and is very accurate and factual. in the search engine you can search for specific aircraft types. The Boeing 737-9Max is the B37M for example.

here is the AvHerald link to the Alaska incident. https://avherald.com/h?article=51354f78&opt=0 they update it daily.

ASN covers all aircraft accidents from puddle jumpers, private jets, helicopter and commercial aircraft. In the USA the way to die in a plane crash is in your private jet. https://aviation-safety.net/

 

[Tayne]

Does the 737-800 predate current cost cutting Boeing management?

https://news.sky.com/story/japan-pa...r-cockpit-window-crack-found-mid-air-13047273

 

[Tayne]

MRC

Flightradar24 in playback mode should find it. I don't know if the free website allows playback but the Silver subscription definitely does.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ or app for smartphones. Alternatively PM me with flight details and I'll check.

I've checked and the ticket said A321, looking at sites to book another ticket show Airbus and flightradar24 will only give me the past 7 days (all a321) so I don't think I've been on a 737Max.

 

[Twocats]

Tayne

Does the 737-800 predate current cost cutting Boeing management?

https://news.sky.com/story/japan-pa...r-cockpit-window-crack-found-mid-air-13047273

On the design front it predates the cost cutting mentality as it was delivered to the first customers around the same time as the merger. The subsequent twenty five years of production would have been under the post merger management. The 737-800 is a rockstar in terms of dispatch reliability and carry’s 9 passengers more than the A320. They are very difficult to find second hand at the moment and trade for big bucks.

 

[DoctorEvil]

Twocats

Much less happy outcomes from a similar scenario:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_781

Not an explosive decompression but a rapid decompression that rendered the aircraft un-flyable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Flight_123

Thanks for the links.
If I recall correctly, the De Havilland Comet's decompression was caused by a combination of metal fatigue and cracks appearing at the corners of its square windows. Since then, all windows of pressurized airliners have had rounded rather than sharp corners. These crashes destroyed confidence in the design and contributed to Great Britain losing her lead in the field of jet airliners.

 

[Dash1]

Twocats

Much less happy outcomes from a similar scenario:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_781

Not an explosive decompression but a rapid decompression that rendered the aircraft un-flyable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Flight_123

My grandfather got off the flight 781 plane in Singapore. It came apart on its way back to London. Not his only aviation close shave, during the war his ship was hit by a kamikaze plane.

 

[MRC]

DoctorEvil

Thanks for the links.
If I recall correctly, the De Havilland Comet's decompression was caused by a combination of metal fatigue and cracks appearing at the corners of its square windows. Since then, all windows of pressurized airliners have had rounded rather than sharp corners.

The failure started at an aperture on the top of the fuselage for an ADF antenna, and then spread down through the windows. The windows themselves had a generous radius in the corners, greater than the near-contemporary Boeing 707, but to reassure the public the window corners were rounded some more for later marks.

Here is a revent video about the failure

and there is an article about the wreck recovery and analysis in the February 2024 issue of The Aeoplane magazine (which I have only skimmed so far).

 

[pdxleaf]

"About a month before the Max 9 was delivered to Alaska Airlines in October, workers at Boeing’s factory in Renton, Wash., opened and later reinstalled the panel that would blow off the plane’s body, according to a person familiar with the matter."

Washingtonpost