Best and durable Omega movement now?

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I can’t help but think Omega simply wanted to get something Rolex didn’t have/couldn’t get and I think that’s a shame. They should’ve focused on innovation where it provided a real benefit and had faith in the brand and product.

In many respects I don't disagree with you, just wanted the criticisms to be accurate...
 
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I’m happy to be corrected there and as I was tying it I did think ‘I bet the barrel wear has nothing to do with the escapement’.

However, I stand by my point around an over complicated solution, that restricts servicing options, for an imaginary problem.
If you want to talk seriously about restricting servicing options, look to Rolex. They won't supply parts to most independents. At least Swatch/Omega will supply parts to independents provided that they complete the necessary training and maintain a shop that is properly equipped. You may very well be correct that the co-axial escapement is engineered to address a problem that doesn't really exist, but in my experience, the movements work and they are very, very accurate.
 
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That’s not actually true. Just like Omega, Rolex does still supply independent watchmakers if they meet their criteria. Genesis Watch Repair in the UK for example is a single independent watchmaker who’s Rolex accredited and has access to parts.

Again though, I feel the new movements could work very well and be incredibly accurate without the coaxial. I completely understand my objection is slightly irrational, but the engineer in me bemoans the complete lack of cost:benefit for the customer
 
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I’ve said it before and I stand by it. The coaxial escapement is an unnecessary, over complicated solution to a problem that didn’t exist.


So is a mechanical watch at all for about 99.7% of the population. With all things relative- the co-axial escapement is subjectively "good" simply because it is "different" than what other mechanical watches use, and therefore it is "exclusive."

There's nothing better about Rolex (for example) except for exclusivity (again- with all things being relative). People choose different brands for a variety of different reasons.


I mean... ignoring everything I just wrote- wouldn't most of us agree that luxury items in of themselves are solutions to problems that don't have to exist? Same thing really applies to cost:benefit- when it comes to luxury items this doesn't even begin to be a big part of the equation.
 
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I mean... ignoring everything I just wrote- wouldn't most of us agree that luxury items in of themselves are solutions to problems that don't have to exist?

That's an interesting point.

A new movement is sold on being "better" than the old one, but stepping away and comparing it to a quartz movement, is it really a "better" movement?

So you remind me, watches are bought on "feelings"...a "luxury" feeling.
 
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2500d or any of the 7750 derivatives


Fight me.
 
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2500d or any of the 7750 derivatives


Fight me.
Agreed on this. The 2500d is a really excellent movement and, unlike the newer generation co-axial calibers, it can into fit a case with a relatively slim profile.
 
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Agreed on this. The 2500d is a really excellent movement and, unlike the newer generation co-axial calibers, it can into fit a case with a relatively slim profile.
Its sad to think that they could have just gone with the 3-level escapement in the 2500d in the beginning and not had to deal with all the drama but I guess hindsight is 20 20.
 
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So is a mechanical watch at all for about 99.7% of the population. With all things relative- the co-axial escapement is subjectively "good" simply because it is "different" than what other mechanical watches use, and therefore it is "exclusive."

There's nothing better about Rolex (for example) except for exclusivity (again- with all things being relative). People choose different brands for a variety of different reasons.


I mean... ignoring everything I just wrote- wouldn't most of us agree that luxury items in of themselves are solutions to problems that don't have to exist? Same thing really applies to cost:benefit- when it comes to luxury items this doesn't even begin to be a big part of the equation.

Completely disagree. A mechanical watch was a necessary solution to a very real problem several decades ago, which is one of the reasons I like vintage watches. The solution is now out of date and has been superseded but when it was invented it absolutely was solving a genuine problem.
The coaxial escapement was never a solution to a genuine oroblem
 
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Completely disagree. A mechanical watch was a necessary solution to a very real problem several decades ago, which is one of the reasons I like vintage watches. The solution is now out of date and has been superseded but when it was invented it absolutely was solving a genuine problem.
The coaxial escapement was never a solution to a genuine oroblem

It was. It was supposed to reduce (or completely remove) friction in the escapement, eliminating to need of lubrication, which would result in better timekeeping.

George Daniels, the inventor, claimed it worked but when Omega started mass producing co-axial movements it apparently didn't.
 
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Agreed on this. The 2500d is a really excellent movement and, unlike the newer generation co-axial calibers, it can into fit a case with a relatively slim profile.
That may be true for the 8500 and 9300 derived stuff but the 8800 is very nearly the same size as the 2500D, it is the same diameter and only 0.5mm thicker so I don't think that criticism is fully valid. If absolute thinness was the only criteria then the 1120 is a better candidate than either at only 3.6mm, the 2500d is the same 0.5mm thicker than that.
Edited:
 
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It was. It was supposed to reduce (or completely remove) friction in the escapement, eliminating to need of lubrication, which would result in better timekeeping.

George Daniels, the inventor, claimed it worked but when Omega started mass producing co-axial movements it apparently didn't.

So there’s two sides, Omegas coaxial either;
A) doesn’t solve a problem that does exist, and/or
B) does solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

Either way, there’s no benefit to it. It’s a white elephant.
 
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So there’s two sides, Omegas coaxial either;
A) doesn’t solve a problem that does exist, and/or
B) does solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

Either way, there’s no benefit to it. It’s a white elephant.

Or:
C) It's an alternative to the lever escapement that works just as well, regardless of whether or not there is a problem to solve
 
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Or:
C) It's an alternative to the lever escapement that works just as well, regardless of whether or not there is a problem to solve

It seems to work just as well but is more complicated to service and maintain while offering no additional benefits. So there are negatives and no positives.
 
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It seems to work just as well but is more complicated to service and maintain while offering no additional benefits. So there are negatives and no positives.
No more expensive or complicated to service than many other Swiss luxury brands. Have you priced a routine factory service at Patek, JLC or Rolex lately?
 
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I’m not referring to cost of service that’s set by various factors unrelated to complexity.

It’s hard to accept the argument that the coaxial isn’t more complicated to service when most untrained Watchmakers can’t effectively service it and even Omega certified ones need specific tools and additional training. Going back to the start, one of my major issues is future serviceability options if Omega decides to stop using it.

I’d be interested to hear from Al whether the coaxial is actually more complex/difficult to service or simply different to a Swiss lever escapement, but the impact is the same - less servicing options for the end user.
 
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If you say: I love cucumbers - no one will pay attention. But keep reciting furiously: I hate cucumbers! They are of no use! And people will start a respectful discussion.
 
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If you say: I love cucumbers - no one will pay attention. But keep reciting furiously: I hate cucumbers! They are of no use! And people will start a respectful discussion.
Some people like their cucumbers pickled.
 
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I’m not referring to cost of service that’s set by various factors unrelated to complexity.

It’s hard to accept the argument that the coaxial isn’t more complicated to service when most untrained Watchmakers can’t effectively service it and even Omega certified ones need specific tools and additional training. Going back to the start, one of my major issues is future serviceability options if Omega decides to stop using it.

I’d be interested to hear from Al whether the coaxial is actually more complex/difficult to service or simply different to a Swiss lever escapement, but the impact is the same - less servicing options for the end user.
Just purely for my own curiosity, do you own or have you ever owned an Omega model with a co-axial caliber or is this purely an academic discussion based upon your engineering background?
 
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Just purely for my own curiosity, do you own or have you ever owned an Omega model with a co-axial caliber or is this purely an academic discussion based upon your engineering background?

No I haven’t owned a modern Omega with coaxial. I’ve come close multiple times with the original ‘vintage’ SM300 master coaxial, and latterly with a PO. However, my concerns aren’t with immediate ownership, more longer term.