I have a Seamaster 2531.80 that I had serviced at Omega (Toronto) back in 2018. When I recieved the watch back from service, I noticed it didn't seem to auto wind like it used too. Starting with a full wind and wearing every day for a work week (over 12 hrs a day) used to yield the full reserve capacity of 40+ hrs if left over the weekend. After service, I'm lucky to see 24-28 hrs from the same wear. Note that if I wind it fully and let it run down it has nearly 50 hrs of reserve, so it seemed the auto wind wasn't keeping it topped up.

I sent the watch back to Omega with this complaint, they checked it out and sent it back stating everything is good. Wore it as normal and found no change in performance. Feeling like maybe I wasn't being active enough or something I foolishly accepted that they must know what they're doing and it must not be a problem.

I recently purchased a winder and thought I'd conduct an experiment. I fully wound the watch and placed it in the winder for a week (winding 700 turns per day I believe, bi-directional). Shut the winder off after 5 days, and the watch died 28 hrs later. My understanding is this should have kept it fully topped up.

It seems no matter what, it just will not wind enough to keep more than 24-28hrs reserve. I'm very frustrated as getting the watch back to Omega for repair is very difficult for me, and I believe now it's past the two year warranty on the service. They've already had two chances and I have zero confidence they'll fix it on a third attempt.

Would anyone happen to know what the issue could be so I can very specifically ask the "experts" what to check/replace?

Thanks,

Rob

 

I would suggest possibly a slipping bridle. The bridle on an auto-wind watch is a calibrated clutch that is designed to begin to slip within the mainspring barrel once the mainspring is fully wound. On occasion, when the bridle begins to slip, instead of slipping a bit at a time as the watch continues to wind, it slips a LOT, and can cost you half a day of reserve before it stops slipping. But you have been too nice for too long, and your warranty may well be no longer in effect. I don’t know what to tell you to do. But it looks like you’ll have to trust someone other than Omega. You are in Ontario. Why not send a PM to @Archer who is also in Ontario, and see what he suggests. But be prepared to pay to have the problem solved.

I have included a picture of a badly broken mainspring that I replaced on a similar model to yours. The “wishbone” shape at the top of the image is the bridle on the outer end of the mainspring which I suspect is slipping. I have also included a picture of the mainspring barrel after the spring was replaced.

 

Sounds to me a problem with the mainspring.

Out of curiosity, was it serviced in the US or in Bienne (Switzerland) ?

I have what feels like a "slipping clutch" problem on a Vostok Amphibia, mainspring is broken and it will not keep more than 24 hours of power. When manually winding it, after 20 turns you can feel the unwinding of the mainspring.

But as you can manually wind it to 50 hours, I don't think that is your problem.

Also had a similar problem on a Mühle Glashütte, turns out it had taken a knock in shipping to the AD and would not keep time correctly, nor accept a complete charge of the mainspring via the automatic.

Do you have a list of what was changed when they did the service ? Did they return the old pieces that they changed with the watch ? Did they list the item numbers of the pieces replaced ? (I am wondering if you have a mismatched mainspring installed)

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

I believe they serviced it in house at the Toronto Swatch headquarters. It's funny because it winds as normal and has excellent reserve if left to run on a full wind. It will also start from dead with a bit of movement of the watch, so it seems the rotor is doing it's thing as well. Time keeping is also good, averages +4 seconds/day.

Would a bridle issue also slip when manually winding? I'd love to send it to Archer but last I checked he has a long wait list.

Here is a picture of the parts they returned that were replaced, not sure if this offers any hints. No component breakdown with part numbers was provided.

 

You have a service warranty... I hope you had that serviced near the end of 2018!

But the service center was the last to touch it, they should be the ones to fix it.

 

If you can manually wind it and it runs for the right reserve, then it's nothing to do with the mainspring.

In the parts returned 2 things stick out - one is the barrel complete. They don't just change the mainspring in these, they replace the entire barrel with one that is already prepared - it wastes parts, but saves them time. These barrels are prepared using automated machinery, and this eliminates the variation that can come from individual watchmakers applying braking grease inside the barrel - so in other words makes it more unlikely that this is related to the mainspring.

The second one is what's not there - a new rotor bearing. Give the extent of the other parts that were replaced in the movement, I would have expected to see the bearing in the rotor replaced as well. In my experience, these are the single biggest issue in the automatic winding of these calibers, aside from the reversing wheel being worn (that has been replaced as I see the old one there).

There is a test that must be performed on the bearing to ensure that it is in good condition and properly cleaned. This is called the damping test...this is for a different caliber, but illustrates what the test is like.

I mount the rotor on peg wood, and support it using a couple of movement holders:



The rotor is turned to a position that is 90 degrees from the hanging position, and then you let it swing:



You time how long it takes to come to a complete stop:



This one a around 57 seconds is short of the requirement. Note that this time varies based on the caliber, so they are not all the same. So the first thing I do is clean the rotor again and try it again. There was no improvement, so the bearing is replaced:





Test is done again:



This time the bearing swings for 1 minute and 58 seconds, so well past what is required:



Once this is done, the bearing is very lightly oiled, and the test is run again. There is an acceptable drop in time allowed due to the drag that the oil creates, and if it's more than that, the rotor must be cleaned and oiled again. So my guess personally is that either the bearing is worn, or it was overlubricated during service.

How do you resolve this with Omega? Not sure what the answer is to that, but I would tell them again that it is not performing as expected, and ask why the rotor bearing wasn't changed.

Cheers, Al

 

I noticed it looks like they replaced the bridge with the serial number on it, I was wondering when Omega replace a part on the watch which has the serial number engraved, do they specially engrave a new part with the same number?

 

The earlier 1120's had the serial number on the barrel bridge, but since that is a part that wears out, they eventually smartened up and started putting it on the balance cock instead (which virtually never need replacing). So the result is that there are barrel bridges available with no serial number on them.

So I have replaced both types, and when the bridge is engraved, I send the old bridge back to Omega, who then sends it to Bienne. They engrave a new bridge with the old serial number, and keep the old bridge - there is no extra cost for this (other than cost for me to ship Omega the old bridge), just extra time as it takes several weeks. This is required because they clearly don't want two bridges out there with the same serial number on them. Here is an example of a newly engraved bridge that I received to replace a worn one:



You can see the smaller package inside has been cut open:



So seeing that the bridge they returned has the serial number on it, that puzzles me a bit...

There are two possibilities here:

1 - Omega replaced the bridge with one that has had the serial number engraved on it, and violated their own rules by sending back the old bridge.

2 - Omega replaced the bridge with one that doesn't have the serial number on it, which is really not good.

Good eye, as I didn't see that originally, but it raises some questions for sure...

 

Thanks for that detailed explanation. To thicken the plot a bit, when I took the watch back the second time, I specifically asked them to check the rotor bearing and the dust shield. Trying not to be an internet expert, I am a Mechanical Engineer and with my basic understanding of how things operate, this seemed like a very plausible cause. My research also suggested that the dust cover can be pressed back on a bit too much such that it contacts the rotor slightly and imparts resistance.

Although I didn't receive any parts back the second time, I've attached the invoice. It seems to suggest they replaced the entire bearing/rotor assembly? I'm at a loss as to how they haven't solved the issue given the extend of parts changed.

I also noticed that bridge with the serial number on it and was concerned my movement no longer has a serial number present. Good to know why they do that, however now I bet they put a blank replacement in with no further consideration.

If I look at this from a positive perspective, it seems if they don't honor the warranty (since I'm technically a few months past the end, but couldn't do much with the pandemic), repairs limited to the winding mechanism should be doable without needing another complete overhaul? So frustrating, you think you're doing the right thing paying the money for the OEM to service and they make a mess out of it. My Speedy is due for a service and it won't be going to Omega, Toronto that's for sure.

 

Thought I would update this thread. Omega Toronto agreed to service the watch again and honor the warranty, I guess with the COVID situation there is a grace period.

The watch is on its way back to me now, they found interference occuring between the barrel and the bridge. Hopefully the replacement bridge was ordered with the serial number, I forgot to confirm but at this point I guess it doesn't matter.

Here's hoping it's fixed this time.