Community Stories

Authenticity of Omega Geneve

Peemacgee
Posts
6,324
Likes
9,773
The London date letter in the case back looks very much like a lower case ‘q’ for 1971.
The serial on the movement is 26,9xxx which would normally be seen as 1968, however, movt serials often have a much wider year spread than is often attributed and as it was cased locally it could easily end up in a 1971 case.

I did think that movts and dials were shipped together, (sans precious metal case) so it doesn’t explain why a lowly Geneve has a top of the range cal 564 movt but it may be that Shackmann had spare movts, dials and cases and created this hybrid watch.
A 9ct Seamaster/Deville case, a Connie movt and a Geneve dial.
A definite frankenwatch but perhaps one that left the (English) factory that way.
I did find one other example on the web but is was just a dial and movt without a case (Geneve dial/564 movt) - so who knows?
 
M
Posts
11
Likes
0
Peemacgee Peemacgee
The London date letter in the case back looks very much like a lower case ‘q’ for 1971.
The serial on the movement is 26,9xxx which would normally be seen as 1968, however, movt serials often have a much wider year spread than is often attributed and as it was cased locally it could easily end up in a 1971 case.

I did think that movts and dials were shipped together, (sans precious metal case) so it doesn’t explain why a lowly Geneve has a top of the range cal 564 movt but it may be that Shackmann had spare movts, dials and cases and created this hybrid watch.
A 9ct Seamaster/Deville case, a Connie movt and a Geneve dial.
A definite frankenwatch but perhaps one that left the (English) factory that way.
I did find one other example on the web but is was just a dial and movt without a case (Geneve dial/564 movt) - so who knows?

I asked the question to the seller about it being an odd combination and his reply was:

“
The 564 is part of a generation of movements produced throughout the 1960s into the early 1970s that were used across several models including Seamaster, Constellation and Geneve. The 564 was chronometer rated and a better movement than some of the other calibres so was mainly used for the Constellation that stated it’s chronometer rating on the dial. So it is rarer to see the 564 in the Geneve models but it is correct and I have seen others.
The reason you are probably not finding many is partly due to the nature of the case on this model which requires a watchmaker to open through the front of the watch after separating the two section crown. This is difficult to do and why you see quite a lot listed without stating the movement calibre or photos.
This also shows the movement is correct for the case (front loading always with 2 section crown movement).
I hope this clarifies…”
 
Peemacgee
Posts
6,324
Likes
9,773
M masher8
I asked the question to the seller about it being an odd combination and his reply was:

“
The 564 is part of a generation of movements produced throughout the 1960s into the early 1970s that were used across several models including Seamaster, Constellation and Geneve. The 564 was chronometer rated and a better movement than some of the other calibres so was mainly used for the Constellation that stated it’s chronometer rating on the dial. So it is rarer to see the 564 in the Geneve models but it is correct and I have seen others.
The reason you are probably not finding many is partly due to the nature of the case on this model which requires a watchmaker to open through the front of the watch after separating the two section crown. This is difficult to do and why you see quite a lot listed without stating the movement calibre or photos.
This also shows the movement is correct for the case (front loading always with 2 section crown movement).
I hope this clarifies…”


Until this thread, I had never seen a chronometer rated 564 in anything other than a Constellation or a marked Seamaster.
Each have the prefix reference 168 (or 167) and have chronometer on the dial.
I don't believe that the 564 was ever used in the general Geneve line. (which from memory was the basic Omega line by this time?)
IMHO the ONLY reason that a 564 could legitimately be in a Geneve is that it is is in a precious-metal locally cased watch.

BTW the 564 was used in the uni-shell 168.015/025 Connie and so can evidently be adapted to suit that kind of case, so not a smoking gun for authenticity.

link to to the other one I found 29,4xx serial so in the same ball park age wise -perhaps it lost its gold case?
https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/36847191-omega-geneve-chronometr-cal-564-men-1960-1969

I'm afraid the long and the short of it is that the watch may well be authentic but is an anomaly and without the original sales documents (or multiple other examples) it will always be an outlier.
 
M
Posts
11
Likes
0
Thank you everyone for your help. I think I’ll avoid it as it doesn’t seem to be a common combination which makes me think it could be a mash up.

How about this 1961 Geneve? Has just been serviced with proof.

I have seen a lot of posts regarding the cal 601, but not 600. Is there a big difference?

Matt.
E1CA5EB5-0865-4660-9F94-C9602B571DA1.png 7D1A998A-159E-4920-B241-AA155205E239.png 22375129-F9E5-4305-848B-DB1D50F889BC.png 52E6B440-0264-44CF-85B6-3596DA575B8E.png
 
padders
Posts
10,456
Likes
16,356
Be aware that is also a UK made case. Not a bad thing but it is a thing. Being from 1961, I'm not sure if it is Dennison or Shackman produced. I guess Shackman since Dennison normally say so, and OWC is more a Shackman thing.
Edited:
 
M
Posts
11
Likes
0
padders padders
Be aware that is also a UK made case. Not a bad thing but it is a thing. Being from 1961, I'm not sure if it is Dennison or Shackman produced. I guess Shackman since Dennison normally say so, and OWC is more a Shackman thing.

Is one better than the other? What does OWC stand for? Apologies for my ignorance, I’m learning as I go!
 
Dan S
Posts
24,392
Likes
54,281
M masher8
Is one better than the other? What does OWC stand for? Apologies for my ignorance, I’m learning as I go!

There's no significant difference in quality to my knowledge. But in general, a fully Swiss-made Omega is somewhat more desirable to collectors. The company names mentioned above are British watch case companies contracted by Omega.
 
padders
Posts
10,456
Likes
16,356
M masher8
Is one better than the other? What does OWC stand for? Apologies for my ignorance, I’m learning as I go!
It stands for Omega Watch Company but ironically shows that the case was made in the UK, see the earlier posts by Aussie Jim and PMG for the explanation. It was common back in the day for Swiss movements to be put into local cases. You have managed to pick out 2 made in London. I am guessing you are searching the UK market for 9K watches, this will throw up a lot of local stuff as 9K isn't universally popular, in some jurisdictions like the USA it isn't even considered gold!
 
Dan S
Posts
24,392
Likes
54,281
Where else was 9K gold used in watch cases, @padders? Australia comes to my mind, but of course those cases are pretty uncommon.
 
padders
Posts
10,456
Likes
16,356
Dan S Dan S
Where else was 9K gold used in watch cases, @padders? Australia comes to my mind, but of course those cases are pretty uncommon.
The places the UK stayed in colonial control beyond 1776 mainly...
 
Davidt
Posts
13,211
Likes
22,975
There’s other random low carat gold as well. For example I’m sure continental Europe (perhaps Germany?) have 10ct. I’m sure I’ve seen 8ct before as well.

Then you’re obviously into 14ct in the US and 15ct was common in the UK prior to 1900.
 
Dan S
Posts
24,392
Likes
54,281
Davidt Davidt
There’s other random low carat gold as well. For example I’m sure continental Europe (perhaps Germany?) have 10ct. I’m sure I’ve seen 8ct before as well.

Then you’re obviously into 14ct in the US and 15ct was common in the UK prior to 1900.

10k in the US also.
 
Davidt
Posts
13,211
Likes
22,975
Dan S Dan S
10k in the US also.

I didn’t know that. I thought 14 was as low as it went in the US as that’s effectively the cut off for greater than 50% gold content.
 
Dan S
Posts
24,392
Likes
54,281
Davidt Davidt
I didn’t know that. I thought 14 was as low as it went in the US as that’s effectively the cut off for greater than 50% gold content.

10k is pretty common for cheap jewelry here.
 
Dan S
Posts
24,392
Likes
54,281
Talk about cheap. 10 gold filled.

s-l500.jpg
 
M
Posts
11
Likes
0
Thanks everyone. I’m not fussed about it being made in the UK as I’m not buying it for resale value in the future, I just want it to look smart enough that I pick it out for special events after my wedding day. I obviously do want it to be genuine though and not a Frankenstein. I’m thinking of pairing it with a green leather strap when I get one.

What about the manual wind calibre 600? I’m sure it’s not as good as a calibre 56x, but I’m also leaning towards manual wind as I think the process of setting it is a little more ‘romantic’ considering it won’t be worn regularly, so no necessary need for it to be automatic.
 
JimInOz
Posts
17,991
Likes
37,590
M masher8
Thanks everyone. I’m not fussed about it being made in the UK as I’m not buying it for resale value in the future, I just want it to look smart enough that I pick it out for special events after my wedding day. I obviously do want it to be genuine though and not a Frankenstein. I’m thinking of pairing it with a green leather strap when I get one.

What about the manual wind calibre 600? I’m sure it’s not as good as a calibre 56x, but I’m also leaning towards manual wind as I think the process of setting it is a little more ‘romantic’ considering it won’t be worn regularly, so no necessary need for it to be automatic.

The 600 was essentially a manual wind version of the caliber 550 and is a fine movement.
It was well designed and is not much different to the 601.
The 600 has a nice swan neck regulator whereas the 601 changed to an eccentric screw regulator. That's about the only difference I've noted.

It would be an excellent choice for an infrequently worn manual watch.
 
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

John_rbn

Request for Advice - Authenticity of Omega Constellation 168.004/14 (18K Gold)

John_rbn Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
AnotherAussie
AnotherAussie
Posts
8
Views
1K
gustave514

Authenticity of omega

gustave514 Modern Omega Watches
YY77
YY77
Posts
8
Views
599
vishsam

Authenticity of Omega buckle

vishsam Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
jshopper1
jshopper1
Posts
11
Views
965
torovega

Help Verifying Authenticity of Omega Speedmaster Reduced - Possible Crown Replacement

torovega Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
torovega
torovega
Posts
2
Views
756
Nhan Huynh

Could someone please verify the authenticity of this Omega 2852?

Nhan Huynh Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
ecarpino
ecarpino
Posts
14
Views
414
Nhan Huynh

I need everyone's help in verifying the authenticity of the Omega 2846-11-SC Seamaster Big Logo dial.

Nhan Huynh Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
Nhan Huynh
Nhan Huynh
Posts
0
Views
118